# How are brackets decided (bug?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Archive\ **Created:** [May 15, 2017, 9:29am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157 "2017-05-15T09:29:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sththunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@Sththunder](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sththunder)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/110 "2017-05-29T15:53:41Z")
I’m now 100% certain it has to do with daily wins as a guild. Unrepentant guys, how many daily wins did you get? We got one. If this is true, I’m not very happy about it. We fought pretty hard to make it so you didn’t _have_ to play every day. And that the reward for doing so was “small” but here we are. Turns out playing daily is a massive change. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/111 "2017-05-29T16:22:43Z")
I’m not complaining about GW. I actually like GW. I think the whole scoring system and demotion/promotion system needs considerable explanation from the Devs but I don’t expect them to explain much. They’re too busy Quixoti-ing non-existent bugs. ---
**Author:** ![Luther](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/luther/32/24788_2.png) [@Luther](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Luther)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/112 "2017-05-29T17:46:18Z")
@Grundulum Rotfl, it seems that we are still immersed in mystery. I might file a suggestion to include that Sum of Name letters, might hold some better predictability than the actual system 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bear](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/113 "2017-05-29T19:00:54Z")
@Sirrian @Nimhain @Saltypatra Can you please explain why the your scoring system need to be a secret? If you feel the formula is exploitable, maybe you need to change it? It’s ridiculous that we’re expected to compete and invest gems in a game mode where the rules are not clear. It’s also quite upsetting that you all seem to write off the frustrations as nothing. You’re getting complaints from the people who are playing your game the most! These are teams from the top 2 brackets - the most active players and it seems like you just don’t care… ---
**Author:** ![PGSundling](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/pgsundling/32/39480_2.png) [@PGSundling](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PGSundling)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/114 "2017-05-29T19:24:13Z")
I’ve spend more money on this game than any other game in my life, way more than the next 20 games combined. This was the last straw, I won’t be spending any more actual cash, even for cool $5 weapons. This game is on my probation in my life. I don’t intend to ever get sucked into another multiplayer game and will certainly put a very low limit on how much I spend on any free to play game moving forward. I don’t ever want to be in this position where I feel I’ve got too much invested to move on. I will never get as invested in a game, as I have with Gems of War (unless it’s for work). ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/115 "2017-05-29T19:47:19Z")
Avoiding call outs. I believe some of this “secret sauce” formula might be discernible. What are some of the real specifics for the guilds in question. Number of wars won during the week, weekly trophies gained, total Guild trophies?, the grand total player victories for the week x/900, final position of opponents faced (easy or hard guilds) & victory/loss against those guilds, bracket movement (if any from last week), and anything else… ---
**Author:** ![Delinquent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Delinquent](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Delinquent)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/116 "2017-05-29T19:55:41Z")
I don’t think it’s that sophisticated honestly. My guess is that it’s largely based on total points earned with a small modifier for your bracket number. I think where they’re getting into trouble is that they’ve probably got it coded to guarantee a certain amount of shuffling each week to prevent things from being too static. Maybe it needs to be turned down a little and made more transparent like traditional relegation systems. For example, bottom two teams are guaranteed to get demoted and top two teams to get promoted but otherwise it’s pretty static. ---
**Author:** ![Stan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stan/32/29888_2.png) [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/117 "2017-05-29T20:05:49Z")
> [@Delinquent](#): > > Maybe it needs to be turned down a little and made more transparent like traditional relegation systems. The problem is that traditional relegation systems don’t have to deal with 200 or 300 brackets. They need to be able to keep things fluid for all of the brackets while having a system that still makes sense in the top bracket, where 99% of the attention is focused. I agree that it doesn’t make sense when they only publish one score for each guild and that score seemingly doesn’t have any bearing on who gets promoted or relegated from each bracket. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/118 "2017-05-29T20:08:11Z")
> [@Delinquent](#): > > I don’t think it’s that sophisticated honestly. My guess is that it’s largely based on total points earned with a small modifier for your bracket number. Multiple weeks of bracket 1 results already suggest that this cannot be the case. It has to be largely based on daily victories. That’s the only possible explanation at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Delinquent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Delinquent](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Delinquent)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/119 "2017-05-29T20:11:15Z")
Unless they’re overweighting the cost of ranking at the bottom of a bracket. That would be all it takes for the bottom 4-5 to routinely shuffle between two brackets. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/120 "2017-05-29T20:12:36Z")
The two bracket 1 teams that are bouncing back and forth have finished 5th and 6th both times. That’s not the bottom of the bracket. ---
**Author:** ![Delinquent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@Delinquent](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Delinquent)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/121 "2017-05-29T20:15:06Z")
If the bottom half are forced down and the top half are forced up then the natural result is that they’d alternate between two breaks each week. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/122 "2017-05-29T20:16:08Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > > [@Delinquent](#): > > > > I don’t think it’s that sophisticated honestly. My guess is that it’s largely based on total points earned with a small modifier for your bracket number. > > Multiple weeks of bracket 1 results already suggest that this cannot be the case. It has to be largely based on daily victories. That’s the only possible explanation at this point. So how many daily wars did Hoguns (#5) and Unrepentant (#6) win? Marthos Guardians (#8) won only 2 daily wars, and we stayed in bracket 1… ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/123 "2017-05-29T20:17:03Z")
It isn’t the bottom half. For two weeks, the LAST PLACE team in bracket 1 remained while the 5 and 6 teams were demoted. Like I said, I understand your theory but the actual result just don’t bear it out. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/124 "2017-05-29T20:17:58Z")
We won 1. That seems to somehow be the answer. One more daily War is worth much more than 3 places worth of points. ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/125 "2017-05-29T20:19:09Z")
That not what the developers said at all. Top 2, and bottom 2 have a “multiplier”. Not top half, bottom half. Anyhow that aside. My inquiry for real data stands to try and reverse engineer a best estimation of the formula. When have tons of speculation/complaints and almost no hard data posted on the forums. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/126 "2017-05-29T20:20:31Z")
> [@htismaqe](#): > > We won 1. That seems to somehow be the answer. One more daily War is worth much more than 3 places worth of points. There has to be more to it than that. 3 Weeks ago Marthos Guardians only won 1 daily war and finished #7 in bracket 1, and we were not demoted. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/127 "2017-05-29T20:24:25Z")
So we’re right back where we started, shrouded in mystery. ROFL ---
**Author:** ![PGSundling](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/pgsundling/32/39480_2.png) [@PGSundling](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PGSundling)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/128 "2017-05-29T20:30:13Z")
Unrepentant ended #6 (Hogans #5) in GW points in bracket 1 We won 2 or 3 of our daily battles last week. Unrepentant is #11 (Hogans #17) on overall trophies. We were #4 (Hogans was #6) for the spring top 20. Last week we were #7 (Hogans #6) in weekly trophies > [@Top 50 Guild League Table History](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/top-50-guild-league-table-history/2648/707): > > Seasonal rankings are based on trophies won between the 26 February 2017 and the 28 May weekly tables. Newer guilds only have trophies recorded since they reached the Top 50 (or in some cases re-entered the top 50), so their position on this table will be lower than actuality or they don’t appear in the Top 20 (this season). Spring (Autumn) 2017 League Top 20 1 Intrim 452,829 2 Anonymous 424,403 3 Rock$tar 306,117 4 Unrepentant 292… Unrepentant and Hogans will see you again in Bracket 1 next week. **At least their algorithms only screw us every other week.** Maybe if we finished in the top 3 we might stay in bracket 1. I do not see that as possible anymore since I don’t even bother with colored teams most of the time. It just doesn’t seem worth my time and stress for this yoyo I’m on. ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157/129 "2017-05-29T20:44:50Z")
Considering you feel that the algorithm has predetermined your destiny to return to Bracket 2 (unless your 3rd). What about testing raw weekly wins? See how close to 900 your guild can get? Of course that might not be a weighted factor, but still you never know. Edit: I believe the daily wars are in the formula and have some weight, but you can’t just say “win all 6 days” to test in Bracket 1. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157.md?page=5) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/how-are-brackets-decided-bug/24157.md?page=7)