# Horned hag self summon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [February 18, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249 "2022-02-18T23:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jdk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jdk/32/58002_2.png) [@jdk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jdk)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/1 "2022-02-18T23:16:48Z")
Couldn’t find any existing mention of this, apologies if someone has brought it up already I think I saw horned hag summon herself in the adventure board today. I killed the summon quite fast but I’m like 90% sure it was a self summon If so, I think this would be the first “summon a random XYZ” troop that can summon itself? I thought everyone else cannot summon themselves (see for example vanya soulmorn, emperinazara, queen moonclaw? both Umbral portals… cocoon? I don’t remember exactly who else does this) Curious if anyone else has observed this and/or if I’m right that it’s inconsistent (Not that inconsistency is surprising) ---
**Author:** ![havok6669](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/havok6669/32/72792_2.png) [@havok6669](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/havok6669)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/2 "2022-02-18T23:28:37Z")
I haven’t seen her do so but I wouldn’t see why she shouldn’t it does say she summons a random hag and there are not that many to choose from and she is in fact a hag. ---
**Author:** ![Buttsniff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/46a35a/32.png) [@Buttsniff](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Buttsniff)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/3 "2022-02-18T23:58:13Z")
She’s done it several times for me, which sucks since she’s got such high spell resist. You gotta just get a lucky manacles devour and hope the skull keeps her from just loading the whole team up when its level 200 or more. ---
**Author:** ![jdk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jdk/32/58002_2.png) [@jdk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jdk)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 3:40am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/5 "2022-02-19T03:40:44Z")
I agree with you that it makes sense, based on how it’s worded, for the hag to be able to summon herself the way it is described. I also think using the same logic it would make sense for Vanya Soulmorn to be able to summon herself So I was just surprised bc I don’t think any of the other troops that do this kind of thing are able to summon themselves “working as intended” 😉 Edit: more specifically, I guess I’m just so trained to expect things in general to NOT work as described in all phases of the game these days, not just summoning, it’s surprising when anything functions in a clear and straightforward way anymore at all. Which is kind of a bummer , so I guess it’s just a venting post 😖. If you read this far sorry for wasting 2 minutes of your life you won’t get back!! ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jonathan/32/66724_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 4:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/6 "2022-02-19T04:02:43Z")
> [@jdk](#): > > If so, I think this would be the first “summon a random XYZ” troop that can summon itself? I thought everyone else cannot summon themselves (see for example vanya soulmorn, emperinazara, queen moonclaw? both Umbral portals… cocoon? I don’t remember exactly who else does this) 👍 > [@havok6669](#): > > I wouldn’t see why she shouldn’t it does say she summons a random hag and there are not that many to choose from and she is in fact a hag. > [@Raging Bull](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/raging-bull/59271/20): > > And just to clarify, a troop cannot summon a copy of themselves unless their spell states otherwise. (Eg, Winged Bison.) I could have sworn there was another discussion around this at some point, but couldn’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![havok6669](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/havok6669/32/72792_2.png) [@havok6669](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/havok6669)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 4:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/7 "2022-02-19T04:05:29Z")
I agree that a lot of the summoning troops should be reworded to say when they have limitations. ---
**Author:** ![Dust\_Angel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dust_angel/32/35256_2.png) [@Dust\_Angel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dust_Angel)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 6:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/8 "2022-02-19T06:05:34Z")
I can confirm that she summons herself - used a team of Horned Hag/Leprechaun with two empty slots - which she shouldn’t really be able to do. It doesn’t take long to see that as there are only three hags (Hag; Night Hag; Horned Hag) in the game. ---
**Author:** ![jdk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jdk/32/58002_2.png) [@jdk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jdk)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/9 "2022-02-19T21:37:27Z")
True dmg plus potentially infinite self summon loop could be irritating (or awesome) in Arena… for anyone who does it … ---
**Author:** ![Nullings](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/nullings/32/39207_2.png) [@Nullings](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Nullings)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/10 "2022-02-20T14:54:29Z")
And that’s really weird, because all summoners before the Horned Hag could not summon themselves: - Queen Moonclaw summoning Gnolls cannot summon itself, but it’s a Gnoll technically; - Emperinazara summons a troop from Emperinazar, but it cannot summon itself due to “summoner limitation”; - Umbral Portal summons a troop from Umbral Nexus, but it cannot summon itself because of the same limitation. And here is the question: why developers changed this rule for hags? @Kafka, @Jeto , we’d like to know it. ---
**Author:** ![igniteice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/igniteice/32/67904_2.png) [@igniteice](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/igniteice)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/11 "2022-02-20T17:17:22Z")
I really, really doubt it was a change. Instead, it was a lack of oversight. They probably programmed it to summon anything from the list of all Hags… and forgot to remove itself. All the other ones that can’t summon themselves were purposefully programmed to exclude themselves. ---
**Author:** ![jdk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jdk/32/58002_2.png) [@jdk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jdk)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/12 "2022-02-20T18:55:56Z")
This is why I didn’t make a bug report… it seems a “bug” would imply someone consciously thought about the issue ahead of time and actually intended it to be consistent with the other troops. And I don’t expect either of those are true It makes me wonder what is the new player experience like anymore with so many inconsistencies? For those of us with years spent in the game, we all just kind of know and remember which random troops work differently than others for whatever unexplained reasons. But how does someone who doesn’t already know figure anything out? The self summon here could lead someone to believe that Vanya and others are the bugged ones bc they can’t We need a QA Horton hears a who check — I meant what I said and I said what I meant 🐘 ---
**Author:** ![Cronus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/cronus/32/73674_2.png) [@Cronus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Cronus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 2:39am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/13 "2022-02-21T02:39:43Z")
I understand that inconsistency is not good in general and would lead to inconsistency in other places that will (and had) cause(d) more serious bugs, however, I am wondering, in this particular case, does it really matter? I mean regardless of self-summon or not, Horned Hag is a pretty “meh” troop at best that I don’t think I will ever use. Do you feel otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![jdk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jdk/32/58002_2.png) [@jdk](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jdk)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 3:51am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/14 "2022-02-21T03:51:01Z")
> [@Cronus](#): > > inconsistency is not good in general and would lead to inconsistency in other places that will (and had) cause(d) more serious bugs This is a pretty good statement of why I think it matters and the consequences, said it better than I could have 😉 I estimate there’s about 80% of the game, roughly 800 troops, that are “meh” or worse, that’s by design and i’m ok with that, not every troop can be great. But I don’t think whether an individual troop has endgame utility is a good metric for whether the overall game mechanics are working well The next time a summoning troop like this gets released, none of us are going to know how it works until we use it, and I don’t think that’s good for the reasons you stated It’s also a lot harder to just ignore troops we don’t like anymore. with so many type/color/kingdom/ etc restricted events in the game now, we are forced to use a lot of these “meh” troops one way or another. I think it’s more fun when they behave predictably (see also troops that start a storm on its turn or maybe on every turn, or are supposed to target multiple enemies sometimes or not, or splash to above or below or adjacent enemies, or boost damage based on some calculation, the list goes on of things like this) ---
**Author:** ![havok6669](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/havok6669/32/72792_2.png) [@havok6669](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/havok6669)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2022, 7:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/horned-hag-self-summon/74249/15 "2022-02-21T07:01:56Z")
Some enemies steal magic before damage is dealt etc or don’t quite work as you would figure for their damage from the spell description causing there to be repeated bug posts about using them in arena lol