# Guild War 100% Mana troops! **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [October 24, 2020, 9:14am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730 "2020-10-24T09:14:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sheffield](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sheffield/32/67509_2.png) [@Sheffield](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sheffield)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/27 "2020-10-24T21:06:34Z")
no need i will stop playing like this. Just to think that changing it just for me. it was just a suggestion or something to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMono](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/chunkymono/32/69308_2.png) [@ChunkyMono](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ChunkyMono)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/28 "2020-10-24T21:22:56Z")
It’s okay to bring it up. It’s okay to discuss it. Weapons were discussed in Arena. How did that turn out? They can ban Empowered troops… skull converters… doomed weapons… everything but Puddlings. We will still fight. And when we win, our opponents will say “ban Puddlings”. Try and take them from us. ---
**Author:** ![Smash](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/smash/32/5574_2.png) [@Smash](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Smash)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/29 "2020-10-24T21:27:20Z")
There is no issue with the empowered converters IMO. You can use other troops, both on and off colour, to counter them. Bad RNG is the issue for what you are annoyed at, unless you are not countering the troops in the correct way. ---
**Author:** ![Lorien1973](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lorien1973/32/75546_2.png) [@Lorien1973](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lorien1973)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/30 "2020-10-25T00:30:45Z")
Dealing with empowered converters isnt that bad…either: Use your own Deny them the colors they need Drain their mana Freeze Maintain initiative Rng will always screw you, but that’s the nature of the game. ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMono](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/chunkymono/32/69308_2.png) [@ChunkyMono](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ChunkyMono)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/31 "2020-10-25T00:37:37Z")
892 Troops, 364 Weapons. I don’t know what even half of them do. Mang has always been my go-to. But give me a Pan’s Lute, and I’ll figure out what to do with it. Eventually, after breaking the first few over an Elf’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Crow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/crow/32/44074_2.png) [@Crow](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Crow)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/32 "2020-10-25T01:19:46Z")
You can put the nastiest defense you want, you can always win with no color restrictions a win is better than a loss. And don’t take things to seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jonathan/32/66724_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/33 "2020-10-25T02:17:15Z")
Imo, this post from Idle is a good basis for the argument that sometimes RNG just doesn’t work out in your favour or that in some cases, there aren’t good counters. Rare, but existent – and I think brushing it off or ignoring it does a disservice to the discussion: > [@Things that make you angry while playing GoW](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/things-that-make-you-angry-while-playing-gow/44225/948): > > Homework assignment! Find the correct move to win this battle! This is the starting board. > > Moonsinger: Turns Purple to Green > Malcandessa: Turns Yellow to Green > > ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/e/9/e9838733e8e6cdc26e5723cc53ec3a3eccc6d93e.jpeg) > > Solution > > There is none. AI casted Malcandessa, turning yellow to green. Doomed Libram filled, casted 3 times in a row. I got my turn back with a webbed, poisoned, mana drained, 3 quarter dead Spirit Fox and nothing else. > > Aren’t Guild Wars starting boards great? Yet, people don’t believe in mulligans. Gotta go fast amirite? I’d be much happier if the response wasn’t, “you’re just bad” or “there are counters” or “it can be dealt with”, but more along the lines of, “I, personally, am happy or comfortable with the amount of loss due to RNG associated with Empowered Converters and starting boards. It’s not enough to make me annoyed/upset/angry”. I can realistically agree that these situations don’t happen that often, but I do think they’re possible and real, and when they do occur, are annoying. If you’re okay with that, I think that’s a very valid stance. I’m kind of tepid on the whole thing, myself. (I.e., in response to, “the issue isn’t Empowered Converters, it’s RNG” – I think the converters create more of a situation in which bad RNG can occur. Without them, “bad RNG” is more mitigated.) ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMono](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/chunkymono/32/69308_2.png) [@ChunkyMono](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ChunkyMono)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/34 "2020-10-25T04:04:48Z")
> [@Jonathan](#): > > I, personally, am happy or comfortable with the amount of loss due to RNG associated with Empowered Converters and starting boards. It’s not enough to make me annoyed/upset/angry”. i am comfortable with the amount of loss. I would much rather prefer to play a game mode that allows me to choose from all available classes, troops and weapons, than a game mode that only allows me to choose from Epic Troops and below. If GW changes, and states “Only bracket winners from the previous war get to use Empowered Troops”, or “Vip Members rank 6 or above get 2k bonus points per day”, then my view may change. As it is, everyone regardless of bracket, Vip Lvl, or preferred avatar may choose from all available troops. I am not a better team builder than Idle, nor would I dare to question why he took those four troops into that battle. Someday, I may return to bracket one. Until that day, my homework assignment is “How do I better communicate to the 3 Goblin Skirmishers that avoid GW battles, or when they do fight them, go 01/19 for the week.” I said earlier Chun was 364. In reality, he was 355, and without Forest Guardian, or Doom Glaive. 60k souls is a lot for a new player to obtain through casual gameplay. He did however manage to craft Doom Crossbow. Not the point. He scored a 5/0 today with Pan’s Lute, Queen B, Alderfather and Moon Rabbit. Would the team solve the homework assignment? Would Mercy have been better? Instead of try to subtract the yellow with Spirit Fox, combine the two? I would much rather have that discussion with my guild members than have them sit silently, mad because they think empowered troops ruined the game. Thankfully, we have 27/30 participation this time, which even tho I am bad at the maths, I know is better than 25/30. Bad beats happen. I’m okay with that. I am glad my guild allows me to vent when it happens, and helps provide solutions. And I am glad that my defenses frustrate other players as well. Goblins were 5/8 yesterday. LnD is 5/3 today. (Bracket 5, if I didn’t say that before). My alt (not Chun) is running Goblins today. 3/3. No empowered Goblins, so, I guess they’re not hated as much in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dust\_Angel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dust_angel/32/35256_2.png) [@Dust\_Angel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dust_Angel)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 11:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/35 "2020-10-25T11:31:08Z")
> [@Hazard1](#): > > Remember, a win is always a win even with off colour troops and worth more points than losing with right coloured troops. This. Everybody should keep that in mind. The problem is - people just keep spamming _you lose points for off-colour troops_ mantra and players fall for it. That’s a completely flawed mindset. The way it should go is - **you get awarded bonus points for every colour-of-the-day troop you use**. Now, instead of feeling obliged to use mono team in fear of losing points (and thus leading to more losses), one can shift one’s focus to - risk vs. reward in getting extra points over what one would be receiving for just a win. ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 11:33am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/36 "2020-10-25T11:33:27Z")
> [@Dust\_Angel](#): > > The problem is - people just keep spamming _you lose points for off-colour troops_ mantra and players fall for it. That’s a completely flawed mindset. This! 👆 ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMono](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/chunkymono/32/69308_2.png) [@ChunkyMono](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ChunkyMono)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 12:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/37 "2020-10-25T12:10:53Z")
The devs can try to make the ai smarter, but they can’t remove all the Luck from the game. Guild we faced today had a lot of Amorak teams, with Child of Summer, Sunspear, and Gimlet. First battle didn’t count, because Child wasn’t traited. It is b5, after all. Second battle Gimlet cast but only made one 3 match. Second turn, Child’s cast didn’t even do that. Left me a board full of Red on Red day. Lucky. Third battle, Dwarves, no empowered. Fourth battle, Dwarves again, but with Mercy. ai didn’t get a turn. Fifth battle. ai chose skulls over Child cast not once but twice, even tho my Monk had barrier. For the longest time, I used Skeleton Key for everything, including Ranked PvP. With all the kingdom, pet, and medal buffs, that is no longer always the best option. But Greed is still useful on other teams. I just don’t see the need to remove empowered troops from GW. And I’m sorry, but we have to shout ideas like that down, or else the devs come back with “but the player base asked for less GW, the player base asked for changes to Sunspear class, the player base asked for 27/30 scoring, the player base asked for arena revamp”. So I’ll be here shouting, **FOR THE HORDE**. ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/38 "2020-10-25T12:52:16Z")
> [@ChunkyMono](#): > > The devs can try to make the ai smarter, but they can’t remove all the Luck from the game. Be careful with using your exploders in GW - in case some doesnt know. After your explosion have gone off you might have lost the game - due board is ready to feed CPU as hell. Does this happens more lately to me in PvP, than before? Yes I can feel it. Is this how they make CPU “stronger”? yes this is among the few things they can adjust to make CPU “stronger”. ---
**Author:** ![ESR77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6bbea6/32.png) [@ESR77](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ESR77)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/39 "2020-10-25T14:50:13Z")
> [@Jonathan](#): > > Imo, this post from Idle is a good basis for the argument that sometimes RNG just doesn’t work out in your favour or that in some cases, there aren’t good counters. I think I would have cast the Spirit Fox with that first move, targeting Moonsinger. That would leave the AI one green 4-match but at least it would prevent a huge conversion from either empowered troop. It also would make yourself a purple match on the left, and who knows, maybe you get a lucky with the brown gems filling in at the top. It might have still ended up in a loss but at least it would have probably kept them from decimating the entire team that turn. Now these types of scenarios would be a great idea for some fun new content. Create some puzzles with pre-set boards heavily in favor of the AI team setup and let you try (repeatedly if needed) to see if you can figure out a way to win - Puzzle mode. Kind of like the puzzles they used to put in MTG magazines where they would show you a dire match scenario and say figure out a way to win this turn. Nah, I guess let’s do some more repetitive world events instead… ---
**Author:** ![Magnusimus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/magnusimus/32/50652_2.png) [@Magnusimus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Magnusimus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/40 "2020-10-25T15:00:51Z")
HAR HAR HAR, WARMASTER! Amarok thought he could devour YOU, da biggest and da baddest ORC in Bracket 5? HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR! These lava beasts have not figured out our alliance with the dwarves, immune to devour! We refuse to be swallowed **FOR THE HORDE** ---
**Author:** ![mld-81](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mld-81/32/63170_2.png) [@mld-81](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/mld-81)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/41 "2020-10-25T17:13:12Z")
A good starting board really does help which you have no control over, luck is certainly a big thing. Nevertheless, all you can try is to counter each team the best you can, it is not always good to stick to just the one team to use on attack. I had to use 4 different teams this week on yellow day to get 5-0 (the joys of meta defenses in B1). One team I didn’t even use hero, I haven’t been in that position since the early days of guild wars. If you’re lucky enough to have the troops and/or classes traits to duplicate then set it and test attack teams out before battling guild wars, you could even get guild mates to set the team as a defense if need be. ---
**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/42 "2020-10-25T21:14:25Z")
> [@ESR77](#): > > I think I would have cast the Spirit Fox with that first move, targeting Moonsinger. That would leave the AI one green 4-match but at least it would prevent a huge conversion from either empowered troop. It also would make yourself a purple match on the left, and who knows, maybe you get a lucky with the brown gems filling in at the top. It might have still ended up in a loss but at least it would have probably kept them from decimating the entire team that turn. Using the Spirit Fox would have left a 5 match of Green at the bottom of the table. I also happened to be frozen on Brown, so no hailmary luck from the top of the board either. Considering the Doomed weapon looped 3 times and killed 3 troops, anything that would have filled it likely would have done the same result, including that 5 match of Green setup. Puzzles would be fun though, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Sytro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sytro](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sytro)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 7:23am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/43 "2020-10-26T07:23:33Z")
> [@Neritar](#): > > The usual excuse of bad GW players. > Say that to players who are consistently good in high GW brackets. Disagreed, every now and than i get a board, where i cannot prevent enemy empowered converter to start looping on their 1st move… To spice things up → this also happened to me twice, when i used frostmage and maab on my team → enemy used orpheus medals and got cleansed on round 1, before looping my team to death. So… you can be prepared no matter what, but if RNG decides you’re screwed, than you’re screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jonathan/32/66724_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/44 "2020-10-26T07:46:12Z")
There are sort of two questions to be asking, I think: 1. Were you using an optimal team (/making optimal moves)? 2. Did you get a bad starting board? I actually do agree with @Neritar’s sentiment that there _are_ players that consistently score well because they use the right teams and make smart moves. - Some of the comments from people complaining about bad starting boards don’t specify the team/opponent, so it’s kind of hard to agree or disagree. I do also think even with those smart teams choices/moves, you can get unlucky, per Idle’s homework question. Without knowing what the board was going to look like, his team was probably close to optimal. It probably is kind of acceptable (or at least, removing Empowered Converters is a fairly drastic suggestion, even if worth considering), but I do think Empowered Converters increase both the number of potentially unfavourable starting boards, and the fallout from them, per my earlier comment – i.e. without them, you have more of an opportunity to make smart plays to make up for the unfavourable board. Would just be a bit of a different ball game – less volatile, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Neritar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/neritar/32/39263_2.png) [@Neritar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Neritar)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 9:10am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/45 "2020-10-26T09:10:41Z")
> [@Sytro](#): > > So… you can be prepared no matter what, but if RNG decides you’re screwed, than you’re screwed. just look at top GW guilds. Their loss percentage is consistently at 3-4% (and they are humans too and make mistakes). That’s how the game screws you. All losses above that - it’s mistakes from a player, be it team selection or board moves. ---
**Author:** ![Sytro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sytro](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sytro)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 10:38am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730/46 "2020-10-26T10:38:53Z")
> [@Neritar](#): > > just look at top GW guilds. Their loss percentage is consistently at 3-4% (and they are humans too and make mistakes). That’s how the game screws you. All losses above that - it’s mistakes from a player, be it team selection or board moves. Yeep, that’s what I was saying. I used to loose 1 battle/week during GW. And I know that’s mainly, because I’m lazy or wanted to push my luck with 4 colored troops. But there are situations where I’ve got teams that have 99% win rate in ranked vs meta-defense-teams (and that’s vs players with highers stats), but that 1% always shows up… Example given by @TheIdleOne is one. Others could include Webspinners with Mercy(to clear entangle) and skull converters. Or double converters with zuul’goth and fireblade hero in front, etc. With most meta-defs, unlucky board at start might turn into wipe as soon as enemy gets a match4/match5 or just casts his empowered converter. You can try to prevent it using best team that counters it, but if RNG decides to screw you - you’re screwed 😉 I just refuse to agree with general attitude that somebody couldn’t lose because of pure bad luck… especialy, if you look at newer players who might not have some essential troops to counter enemy team - they are kind of forced to push their luck without nessesary tools. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-war-100-mana-troops/66730.md?page=3)