# Guild "agreement" in bracket1 to arrange scores **URL:** \ **Category:** Archive\ **Created:** [September 25, 2017, 7:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740 "2017-09-25T07:00:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Scarlett](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/scarlett/32/31007_2.png) [@Scarlett](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Scarlett)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/452 "2017-09-27T18:44:01Z")
The same reasons could been given by any guilds, since everyone faced same teams and same problems. So, as you before thought, every guild in every bracket could cooperate against you and well, they could be justified by your own words. I think you’re trying to save face, but I do not believe your repentment is sincere. You did not come out in the open because you felt guilty but just because you were caught red handed and now you don’t want to be blamed by all. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/d/bd2c2f39c2314cd4224d151a08aa0adecacaaa51.png) [@system](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/453 "2017-09-27T18:47:27Z")
Closed on September 27, 2017, 6:47pm UTC This topic is temporarily closed for 4 hours due to a large number of community flags. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/d/bd2c2f39c2314cd4224d151a08aa0adecacaaa51.png) [@system](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/454 "2017-09-27T22:47:29Z")
Opened on September 27, 2017, 10:47pm UTC This topic was automatically opened after 4 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Blondie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/blondie/32/31819_2.png) [@Blondie](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Blondie)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/455 "2017-09-27T22:48:28Z")
> [@Maxx](#): > > > [@peterix](#): > > > > Which is the reason why the whole truce ever came to life in the first place. As a day “off”. > > If you truly wanted a day off then just take a day off and do that days battles the next day. GW really pissed me off today and I want a day off tomorrow so I’m going to do Thursdays battles on Friday or I might even just leave them and do them all on Sunday. When we need a break, we transfer down to our sister guild and take one. We don’t cheat like you do. We play fair. You don’t. I have lost all respect for what I thought were strong and established top Guilds with strong players. Instead I find that you can’t take the stress so instead you cheat and “take a vacation” while gaining exorbitant amounts of extra points that you didn’t earn in playing these battles. What a crock. You don’t deserve to be in Bracket One if you can’t take the pressure. In addition, this has been going on long before the Kraken Wisps wore you down. Only those that can handle the pressure and still battle on, playing the game fairly, deserve to be in bracket one. If you need a vacation and you chose a path that would also give you extra points unfairly, Then you do not deserve to be in Bracket One. The top bracket should only be for those guilds that can fight hard and win without cheating, and handle all the stress that goes with the territory. You did not do that, you could not do that therefore, you don’t deserve to be in bracket one. It’s that simple ---
**Author:** ![Trajic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/trajic/32/20447_2.png) [@Trajic](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Trajic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/456 "2017-09-27T22:49:33Z")
> [@Eika](#): > > No, it is just stupid to see you try to defend this. No matter what you shows us, we will believe it was all about the points, everything other comes after… As I promised, I came back to answer the most reminded opinions. … If it was all about points - why didn’t we accept any other alliances? It would have given us _even moar_ points. We have come up with the truce because of the **people**. Points were involved - saying they do not exist would be plain idiocy - but they were not the reason. That being said - I will repeat it all over again to everyone. Do go through your assumptions again. The points by unjust means - which were confirmed by developers that are **not wrong or prohibited** … … How many of them were there? I see this being brought up over and over again. Please, do that research. You won’t ever believe in anything what I say. And that’s natural. I expected as much. But I humbly believe your numbers about this issue are not right on track. And how can I state this so boldly? Developers **did** keep an eye on scores and their influence on leaderboards. They **were** aware of our alliance ever since day one. And it’s been **their** words they would jump in if these alliances influence the leaderboards in any unfair manner. … … But have they? Have any developer said these alliances tip the scales of Guild Wars? They have changed their policy because of you people - who were dissatisfied with their policy by such a great margin. Because of the uproar, call outs, and dissatisfaction with their job. And so are we! Because if they have clarified this on day 1 - none of this would have happened. Reminding again - we **did** contact them whether what we wanted to do was right. @Blondie I do imagine your situation. … But all I see from your responses tell me you do not see ours. I am aware of your feelings …But the world is built on mutual agreements and compromises. Not opinions or feelings. Can you imagine how many points we lost due to bugs? How many points did we loose because someone logged in just to see 0/5 score on his screen, without ever playing any matches? After any ticket we sent - the compensation was always the same. A penny (10 souls, 10 glory, 1000 gold) or none. The scores of Guild Wars are influenced by so many random things - from which a lot are based on errors or unfair issues - that the scores we gained (monitored by devs!) hardly were the biggest deciding factor on the leaderboards. How do we feel about all of this? The same way you feel about something we did. If I said it again, over and over again, that the amount of points was not as abysmal as you believe it to be - you wouldn’t believe. … Please. Do go check those days where these 2 guilds were not against each other. Compare that. Then - we can have the discussion about this sort of thing. But that cannot be done if you go cleaning your pitchforks instead of writing numbers on a piece of paper. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/d/bd2c2f39c2314cd4224d151a08aa0adecacaaa51.png) [@system](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/457 "2017-09-27T22:54:08Z")
Closed on September 27, 2017, 10:54pm UTC This topic is temporarily closed for 4 hours due to a large number of community flags. ---
**Author:** ![Ozball](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ozball/32/36110_2.png) [@Ozball](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ozball)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/458 "2017-09-27T23:33:15Z")
Opened on September 27, 2017, 11:33pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![Blondie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/blondie/32/31819_2.png) [@Blondie](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Blondie)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/459 "2017-09-27T23:39:34Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#): > > > [@Blondie](#): > > > > Gaining points in a Guild Wars competition unfairly = cheating. > > Except that they didn’t gain those points in an unfair way, they didn’t break any rules. Of course they gained those points in an unfair way. They colluded with another guild to purposely set defense teams to easy so that they could “take a vacation” and gain very high scores that would not have been attainable if they were playing normal hard defensive teams like the rest of us were playing In addition, the collusion caused them to get higher scores thus nudging us down a few levels. The difference between levels in our bracket are quite substantial. Because we have been unable to break into the top four spots, this has caused many in my guild to not leveled the Sentinels, because they can’t afford to max them out. Yes, it affects us. As well as other guilds.There were so many times when we almost had enough points to make it to the next level. So please don’t say that you barely affected the score because you affected it in a huge way to us. You robbed us of many many gems and troops. Your collusion made a huge difference in the scoring because I saw your guilds fly past us so quickly that I have even mentioned it, finding it hard to believe that anyone could get a score so high in one day. Yes I’ve seen this, I’ve seen when you’ve done this because you did it In such an extreme way that caught my attention. So please don’t say that you barely affected the score because you affected it in a grand way. ---
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/460 "2017-09-27T23:41:45Z")
Number 1: We have no proof the devs were “watching” the numbers for collusion. In this very thread, they acted like they didn’t even know that collusion was going on and that they needed to “investigate” the claim. Number 2: Everyone is equally irritated by bugs, disconnects and an aggravating, tiresome meta. So, please just stop with the disingenuous comparison of those universal GW problems and guild collusion that was practiced behind closed doors by a small group of players. Players that knew that the devs publicly stated that collusion wasn’t “in the spirit of the game”. ---
**Author:** ![Grundulum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/461 "2017-09-27T23:46:25Z")
> [@Blondie](#): > > We don’t cheat like you do. … Instead I find that you can’t take the stress so instead you cheat and “take a vacation” > … > The top bracket should only be for those guilds that can fight hard and win without cheating You keep using that word. The formation of alliances was, explicitly, not against the rules of Guild Wars. The developers were asked, repeatedly, and refused to rule against it. It was not cheating. Repeating that word over and over again won’t make it so. Moving forward, now that there is a firm ruling in place, it would be cheating. Edit: I want to relate a (probably apocryphal) story about NASCAR. Back in the day, there was a rule specifying how wide the tube connecting the fuel tank to the engine was allowed to be. In the interest of fairness, NASCAR wanted to set a firm limit on how quickly fuel could be provided to the engine. One team, consistently, went longer between refuelings than any other team did. They had the roughly equal engines, equal tires, equal aerodynamics, and an equally skilled driver. There was no obvious reason why they should be using less fuel for equal performance. When the car was inspected, it was discovered that the fuel pipe was exactly as wide as specified by the rules. It was just many feet longer than it needed to be. The car was using the fuel line as a second gas tank, which let them carry more fuel and thus stay on track longer. This wasn’t cheating. It was an exploitation of a loophole in the rules. It was arguably against the spirit of the rules, but it was not cheating. (Said rule was quickly amended by NASCAR.) And don’t even get me started on Formula 1. Edit 2: less apocryphal than I thought! > [@](#): > > In 1968, he said NASCAR specified how big a fuel tank could be, but he noticed no one said how big the fuel line could be. Instead of a half-inch fuel line, Yunick created a two-inch fuel line that was 11 feet long, and held five gallons of gas. ---
**Author:** ![Amadan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/amadan/32/7653_2.png) [@Amadan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Amadan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/462 "2017-09-28T00:00:12Z")
Regardless of agreeing with it or not, I’m surprised that anyone is surprised - I just kinda assumed people were doing this all over the place. I mean, it’s a trivially easy and flamingly obvious way to game the system; of _course_ people are doing it. It’s certainly not “cheating” simply because they’re not bypassing anything or breaking anything - they’re just setting a defense team. As long as 1) you can see who you’re fighting before you fight them, 2) you can talk to the people you’re fighting, and 3) _you_ don’t lose anything when your defense team loses, then this just **is** going to happen. Hell, from a certain point of view you could even say that the Guild War system _encourages_ this behaviour. Personally? I really don’t care either way since it doesn’t effect me in the slightest. I’ve backed my Gems time _way_ down and have deliberately not been in pushing-for-rank guilds for a while now. Emergent behaviours are often the most fascinating things to study about multiplayer games. ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/463 "2017-09-28T00:03:58Z")
> [@efh313](#): > > the outcry was so clear and even the devs stated it was against the spirit of the game, Pitchforkers pushed the devs to say “no it’s forbidden” so devs said that (super ambigous, what it means “spirit of the game”? Putting Wisp in all your defense teams?). And it’s exactly what happens again in this thread: players screaming until devs give in. Nice community that we have… You remembered what happens with DonBoba where everyone was coming on this thread just to split at his face (even his “friends”)? Do you think it’s normal that a bunch of players choose for others what it’s a good or not? I remembered your posts where you said that Guild Wars should be like war. Then, players said “no it should be like sports!” “what are you saying @efh313?”, etc. In this discussion, did you think that your opinion was welcomed or not? By reading back this thread, I found this post which quite resume what it’s going here: > [@Guild Wars and sisters guilds](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-wars-and-sisters-guilds/23674/219): > > While you do that, please take into consideration that this thread (and possibly the forum in general) allows only one side of the discussion to be expressed. There may be many people who disagree with the views presented here, but would say nothing out of (justified) fear that they will be publicly shamed. Just saying. Thank you for your time. Our PM about our alliance is not at all ambigous 🙂 . So that’s why we have continued. ---
**Author:** ![MadOrange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/madorange/32/23351_2.png) [@MadOrange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/MadOrange)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/464 "2017-09-28T00:12:29Z")
The devs have created this mess. When customers play a freemium game, pay real money and then get most of the in game rewards for playing removed, players are going to look at ways to get the rewards back. Less Gems Less event keys Yesterdays update has slowed the game down again Sentinals costing gems we dont have now Shit mythics in forge, when most just want Famine RNG when you want to create a Legendary and get crap instead VIP players fingered Forgot one… Dawnbringer has broken Arena, so new players are also fingered! All the above and the top guilds gain so many gems from winning guild wars, they can afford to lvl sentinals and open VIP chests. They will stay on top and now will also cheat to help others. So… what are you going to do about this? We need action, fixes, changes and NOT vague answers. ---
**Author:** ![Taliesin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@Taliesin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Taliesin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/465 "2017-09-28T00:16:21Z")
Yes every other guild could have made an alliance. In war there are alliances to help improve their position in said war. It is called guild WAR. The name implies find an ally if you can. If it was called anything other than WAR I would believe the dev statement about it not being in the spirit of the game but since they chose for guilds to declare WAR on each other they had to know that alliances would happen otherwise call it something other than WAR. ---
**Author:** ![Nilbogz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/nilbogz/32/16636_2.png) [@Nilbogz](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Nilbogz)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/466 "2017-09-28T00:17:27Z")
> [@Aelthwyn](#): > > @peterix has explained our reasons. > **The devs have not always considered that it was “cheating”.** > **As he and @turintuor have said, we would never have done it if we had not consulted the devs before the beginning of the very first week of GW and obtained a clear agreement.** > **Although we had been given permission to make their answer public, we haven’t posted it so far out of respect for the devs. However I have already shared it with a few people and am ready to communicate it to whoever is interested.** > > We still disagree with the vocal part of the community on that topic, but we would never do knowingly anything illegal. We have duly noted and taken into account the new position of the devs as soon as Salty has expressed it. So you asked the Devs and they told you it was ok to collude? now they are stating it’s cheating… no wonder they won’t punish these guilds… don’t want to make themselves look bad… but it’s too late for that ---
**Author:** ![Namour](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/namour/32/2957_2.png) [@Namour](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Namour)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/467 "2017-09-28T00:18:03Z")
I appreciate your stepping forward and explaining your thought process. As @Shadow said earlier, it is tough to see friends get beaten by your own defence and sometimes 6 days of GW can feel like we’re taking part in a siege rather than a battle. (Devs - consider 5 days). However, please do not continue to say that you got more points on other non-colluding days. This is folly. We all know there are some days that no defence is good enough (though what days these are has changed with the meta and new troops). From memory one of our highest daily scores was on a green day versus DP. We got 209k points and they also got 202k or there abouts. But trying to get similar scores on red day’s (at least in the first phase of GW) was nigh on impossible. Because of this, I believe your collusion was only likely significant on the outcome for weeks where you colluded on a ‘difficult’ colour day or when the devs introduced broken troops (ie fizzbang & wisp & Kraken when impervious was failing) and you avoided using these. My only other point is that you refer to ‘glitches’ being more significant. We all had these and it was frustrating for all people that had it happen. I had understood that it was also a strategy of yours to set Defences (ie single troops or known glitchy teams) to maximise the chance that your enemies experienced these same glitches. If this was done, then I give no empathy to that particular argument if you actively tried to make it happen to your foes. ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/468 "2017-09-28T00:35:54Z")
> [@Namour](#): > > I had understood that it was also a strategy of yours to set Defences (ie single troops or known glitchy teams) to maximise the chance that your enemies experienced these same glitches. If this was done, then I give no empathy to that particular argument if you actively tried to make it happen to your foes. Where did you read that? As far as I know, we never did that, but we observed some players who put a not-4-troops defense team. Is it done on purpose or not, I don’t know. And as you are talking about “glitchy teams”, Kraken/Mab with the broken Impervious were/are glitchy. And so on, Maw. ---
**Author:** ![Saltypatra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/saltypatra/32/59750_2.png) [@Saltypatra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Saltypatra)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/469 "2017-09-28T00:37:38Z")
Just on a side note, I can confirm that one of the ways we will be helping this moving forward is by adding points to defense teams. I can’t say much more at this time but we will be bringing this to 3.2. ---
**Author:** ![ZooKeeper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zookeeper/32/30875_2.png) [@ZooKeeper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ZooKeeper)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/470 "2017-09-28T00:40:36Z")
> [@Saltypatra](#): > > Just on a side note, I can confirm that one of the ways we will be helping this moving forward is by adding points to defense teams. I can’t say much more at this time but we will be bringing this to 3.2. And when is it going to happen? 6 month? 1 year? Don’t say soon because every time you say soon it actually never happen soon, it varies. And what are you going to do regarding this issue in the meantime we wait 3.2? ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740/471 "2017-09-28T00:44:30Z")
> [@Blondie](#): > > Imagine for a minute if you can how we feel. We are also in bracket one. We have been playing against you guys and you have unfairly gained points that were not earned in the manner in which this game was designed. I sympathize with your guild and all guilds harmed in this sense… > [@Aelthwyn](#): > > Although we had been given permission to make their answer public, we haven’t posted it so far out of respect for the devs. However I have already shared it with a few people and am ready to communicate it to whoever is interested. I can’t honestly imagine the devs being ok with this to begin with… **I’m not calling you a liar just to be clear!** But what’s the point of adding a feature supposed to be a ranked competition and allow certain groups to make alliances to lock their positions in certain ranks? Obviously it would backfire once discovered. Shaddy deals with the authorithies (devs) blessings? I can’t even… [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740.md?page=22) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-agreement-in-bracket1-to-arrange-scores/30740.md?page=24)