# Got trolled by Courage, so another NERF! thread here, with comparison **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [April 27, 2017, 8:47am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165 "2017-04-27T08:47:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 8:47am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/1 "2017-04-27T08:47:35Z")
Can we please nerf Courage’s 3rd trait downward, or boost all other on skull bonuses upwards? Here is a comparison of troops that also have on skull stat gains compared to Courage: **Courage:** - +12 Attack and HP gain for Team, **24 total stat gain** - **Applies regardless of slot** **Great Maw:** - +2 to all stats on self, 8 total gain, doesn’t use the +2 magic, so **6 total gain** - Applies regardless of slot **Draakulis:** - +8 HP gain to self - **MUST be current 1st slot** **Warlord Class:** - +3 Attack gain to self - **MUST be current 1st slot** Even if Courage was the ONLY troop left on a team, his ability STILL out values most other options. Any instance where 2 or more troops are on a team, he will ALWAYS out value all other options. ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 8:53am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/2 "2017-04-27T08:53:50Z")
Didn’t read anything but the title, instantly liked the post for the Courage hate it promised, i hope you didnt troll me! ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 8:55am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/3 "2017-04-27T08:55:31Z")
You should consider the stat ratio: 1 Attack = 1 Magic = 2 Hp = 2 Armor It will show how Courage is great/OP? compared to others (36 stat points compared to 8 or 6 for Warlord). ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 9:04am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/4 "2017-04-27T09:04:56Z")
> [@turintuor](#): > > You should consider the stat ratio: 1 Attack = 1 Magic = 2 Hp = 2 Armor The stat ratio the devs have always worked with is actually 1 Magic = 2 Attack = 4 Life = 4 Armour. But your point is still valid. @tacet, also compare Courage third trait to Loyalty… ---
**Author:** ![Whiskeyjack](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/whiskeyjack/32/65850_2.png) [@Whiskeyjack](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Whiskeyjack)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 9:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/5 "2017-04-27T09:11:28Z")
Agree, Courage’s buff numbers make no sense compared to Loyalty given that its much easier to match a large number of skulls than it is to cast a large number of spells. I have previously stated otherwise but I take back that statement ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 9:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/6 "2017-04-27T09:18:16Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > Great Maw: > > +2 to all stats on self, 8 total gain, doesn’t use the +2 magic, so 6 total gain > > Applies regardless of slot On a non related sidenote. Why the hell is Great Maws trait, a legendary objectively staight up better than Ketras’, a mythic? They are both triggered by three matches of one gem colour, but Ketras’ trait won’t buff Ketras magic, what’s up with that? Simply buffing all stats like Great Maws trait does would be a very very subtle increase to Ketras spell, one he could use. ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 9:24am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/7 "2017-04-27T09:24:32Z")
> [@Gouki](#): > > Why the hell is Great Maws trait, a legendary objectively staight up better than Ketras’, a mythic? Debatable whether Maw is _better_… the +2 Magic is irrelevant as Maw doesn’t use that stat, so the traits give the same benefit, and Ketras is gaining spell damage from all those stats as well… also red gems probably match more often than skulls in general… However I agree Ketras should get the +2 Magic in there too, as a Mythic his trait should be strictly better… ---
**Author:** ![Shimrra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shimrra/32/87_2.png) [@Shimrra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shimrra)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 9:38am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/8 "2017-04-27T09:38:33Z")
Agree on Ketras’ trait, even though his spell ratio got buffed to being useful since release. As for Courage… jesus, I don’t know how this is still a thing. Its gotta go down. I’d be happy with +2/+2 or +2/+1 or +1/+2. As it stands, there isn’t another Guild Guardian being used nearly as much, let alone two or three on a team. Justice is probably the closest. Even with the Bone Dragon nerfs. The thing is pretty much just as dangerous as before as far as Courage + BD teams are concerned, just a bit slower with the higher mana cost. ---
**Author:** ![Grundulum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/9 "2017-04-27T12:39:47Z")
That’s something I was wondering about, actually. Before, BD would cause one big 25-skull blob. Now it might cause multiple 3-skull matches. So Courage would trigger once before, but three times now, right? ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 12:41pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/10 "2017-04-27T12:41:27Z")
> [@Grundulum](#): > > So Courage would trigger once before, but three times now, right? Pretty sure Courage was triggering multiple times before, too, because of errors deep in the code. Same with the Archer and Assassin insta-kill proc rolls. BoneDragon cast plus double Courage meant an easy +60 to Life and Attack. ---
**Author:** ![Shimrra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shimrra/32/87_2.png) [@Shimrra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shimrra)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/11 "2017-04-27T13:08:27Z")
Courage _was_ triggering multiple times depending on the skull patterns. The only nerfs I see are an increase in BD’s mana cost (making it significantly harder to charge in two turns), the target retaining more armor, and the rare chance that the skulls don’t get an extra turn. The amount of Courage procs seems the same. ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/12 "2017-04-27T14:04:57Z")
![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/9/3/93c7303589ea800b00e63f9402000dc545b58887.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/13 "2017-04-27T14:17:55Z")
Super up vote, I’d give you 5 if I could. 🙂 This type of troop Power comparison is exactly what I do all the time for my personal teams (usual cost to power but still)! “Nicely written out, as opposed to ‘Nerf’ Courage because its OP” ---
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/got-trolled-by-courage-so-another-nerf-thread-here-with-comparison/23165/14 "2017-04-27T14:23:55Z")
> [@Strat](#): > > “Nicely written out, as opposed to ‘Nerf’ Courage because its OP” I thought the same thing after reading the OP. I’m generally pretty anti-nerf. I’ve rolled my eyes and speedily scrolled by plenty of whinging nerf xyz troop thread filled with incoherent vague rants. It’s nice to see someone post a coherent and well-thought out post that actually shows why a troop is out of balance.