# Getting tired of Valkyrie **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [August 2, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617 "2016-08-02T20:07:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/61 "2016-09-14T20:52:55Z")
Because we’re not all of one mind, and just because the “devs are working on it” doesn’t pull a topic off the table unilaterally. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/62 "2016-09-14T20:56:00Z")
Well imo “Woe is me I hate having to use Valkyrie for everything, it should be fixed.” Kind of dies when someone says, “hey it’s getting fixed.” To each their own, carry on you precious people. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/63 "2016-09-14T20:56:32Z")
See you in the next thread! ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/64 "2016-09-14T20:57:00Z")
Don’t you assume things about me Lyya. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/65 "2016-09-14T20:57:11Z")
Fine. See you two threads from now. ---
**Author:** ![yonizaf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/yonizaf/32/1435_2.png) [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/66 "2016-09-14T20:58:27Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > When given a choice between doing something they dislike but is optimal, and something they like but is non-optimal, many will grumble and do the former. That’s exactly what I don’t get. In real life, maybe, but not in a game. If what you like is freedom, don’t use her. If what you like is efficiency, don’t grumble. Unless, maybe some people just like to grumble, in which case I have nothing more to say. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/67 "2016-09-14T21:02:29Z")
Tell me you haven’t ever seen this behavior in any other game. This is the bane of the MMO, wherein designers often accidentally enable bad player behavior to become optimal, and everyone moans about it instead of simply taking non-optimal “scenic tours.” You may rail against it, but it’s there, and I would go so far as to say it’s human nature. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/68 "2016-09-14T21:06:53Z")
> [@yonizaf](#): > > Unless, maybe some people just like to grumble [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/1/145f64a115c35fa3ace8773be77abf2947257e83.jpg)](https://imgflip.com/i/1am12z) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/69 "2016-09-14T21:11:02Z")
> [@yonizaf](#): > > > [@Lyya](#): > > > > When given a choice between doing something they dislike but is optimal, and something they like but is non-optimal, many will grumble and do the former. > > That’s exactly what I don’t get. In real life, maybe, but not in a game. If what you like is freedom, don’t use her. If what you like is efficiency, don’t grumble. Unless, maybe some people just like to grumble, in which case I have nothing more to say. This is exactly the behavior we see when we apply “systems” thinking. Which is a bit unintuitive, but is a very powerful and field-proven way to anticipate behavior (human and otherwise!) when complex systems are involved. If you are interested in learning about the topic, the book “Thinking in Systems: A Primer” by Donella Meadows is the authoritative source material. This gets at the heart of oddities like “Why does everyone take I-5 south out of Portland on Fridays, when everyone knows it will be backed up for miles?” or “Why does offering a 2-for-1 deal on pizza convince so many people to overbuy pizza, and then throw it away?” and other critical questions of our time. But what we see, time and again, is exactly what Lyya described above - given the choice between two options, people will NOT take the action that makes them happy - they will consistently favor the action they believe is “better” or “more efficient” in the long-term. Even if that choice makes them miserable. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/70 "2016-09-14T21:17:39Z")
That’s why you have to offer people better options Mr. Strange. Lyya I’m still here and you can’t make me leave. 😝 Of course when presented with “better” options, more people use that option, which creates the scenario all over again. We need souls universally easier to get or multiple great options. So many that none can become the “norm.” Indeed it is very curious the way human minds work. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/71 "2016-09-14T21:19:05Z")
> [@HKdirewolf](#): > > That’s why you have to offer people better options Mr. Strange. I’m curious to know if there is any philosophy in which giving people WORSE options is a thing? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/72 "2016-09-14T21:20:30Z")
No good options, just all bad? Yeah that’s called prison. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/73 "2016-09-14T21:22:15Z")
> [@Mr.Strange](#): > > This is exactly the behavior we see when we apply “systems” thinking. Which is a bit unintuitive, but is a very powerful and field-proven way to anticipate behavior (human and otherwise!) when complex systems are involved. If you are interested in learning about the topic, the book “Thinking in Systems: A Primer” by Donella Meadows is the authoritative source material. > > This gets at the heart of oddities like “Why does everyone take I-5 south out of Portland on Fridays, when everyone knows it will be backed up for miles?” or “Why does offering a 2-for-1 deal on pizza convince so many people to overbuy pizza, and then throw it away?” and other critical questions of our time. > > But what we see, time and again, is exactly what Lyya described above - given the choice between two options, people will NOT take the action that makes them happy - they will consistently favor the action they believe is “better” or “more efficient” in the long-term. Even if that choice makes them miserable. When we apply psychology to this principle and factor in the external influence of this era of instant gratification, we can explain this behavior. The reason we choose efficiency is for _long-term_ happiness and satisfaction. It’s also called _grinding_ for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/74 "2016-09-14T21:24:31Z")
> [@Mr.Strange](#): > > > [@HKdirewolf](#): > > > > That’s why you have to offer people better options Mr. Strange. > > I’m curious to know if there is any philosophy in which giving people WORSE options is a thing? > > 😉 That’s the realm of multi-billion dollar corporations/conglomerates. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/75 "2016-09-14T21:26:48Z")
Yeah that’s a system in which only serves to kick people while they’re down. “Any philosophy in which giving people WORSE options is a thing” Yeah and those people are the Government. Which is mildly very fitting for a ‘gathering of souls’ thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/76 "2016-09-14T21:27:51Z")
> [@TaliaParks](#): > > When we apply psychology to this principle and factor in the external influence of this era of instant gratification, we can explain this behavior. > > The reason we choose efficiency is for _long-term_ happiness and satisfaction. It’s also called _grinding_ for a reason. An interesting corollary of “systems” thinking is actually the _opposite_ of this! It removes psychology and delayed gratification from the explanation entirely. Which is one of the reasons I especially like it. Because you’ll see the same effects in systems which don’t have psychological injects - like tides, or lava floes, or insect breeding patterns. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/77 "2016-09-14T21:52:33Z")
> [@Mr.Strange](#): > > > [@TaliaParks](#): > > > > When we apply psychology to this principle and factor in the external influence of this era of instant gratification, we can explain this behavior. > > > > The reason we choose efficiency is for _long-term_ happiness and satisfaction. It’s also called _grinding_ for a reason. > > An interesting corollary of “systems” thinking is actually the _opposite_ of this! It removes psychology and delayed gratification from the explanation entirely. Which is one of the reasons I especially like it. Because you’ll see the same effects in systems which don’t have psychological injects - like tides, or lava floes, or insect breeding patterns. Discounting psychology in anything, even systems, when there is a human is scientifically flawed. You remove a variable that is essential and do it by your own volition. This would negate any credible experiment in science, therefore I propose the same in regards to statistical analysis. The human factor is complex and alters pretty much everything. ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/78 "2016-09-14T22:19:07Z")
I wonder if players would prefer to reduce Valkyries soul generation and increase souls earned per kill or to keep Valkyrie as she is and have more troop options equivalent to her ---
**Author:** ![VegaDark541](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vegadark541/32/7875_2.png) [@VegaDark541](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/VegaDark541)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/79 "2016-09-14T22:39:05Z")
> [@Robert](#): > > I wonder if players would prefer to reduce Valkyries soul generation and increase souls earned per kill or to keep Valkyrie as she is and have more troop options equivalent to her Option 3 - Keep Valk the same, but increase souls per kill. There’s no reason to nerf her if you still have the soul cap in place. Also, having other troops similar to Valk would be good too. ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/80 "2016-09-14T22:41:03Z")
She wouldnt serve a purpose (in terms of souls) in that scenario… unless they increased the soul cap; which may be an option considering how many troops are being released each week [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617.md?page=3) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617.md?page=5)