# Getting tired of Valkyrie **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [August 2, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617 "2016-08-02T20:07:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/41 "2016-09-14T17:41:30Z")
It would have been a direct copy of another troop with the colors replaced. They’ve not done so for anything else, probably because it’d be perceived as boring. My opinion hasn’t changed from the above. Valk is much too good at soul generation. They should bring up the baseline and tone her down. ---
**Author:** ![Studs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/studs/32/3498_2.png) [@Studs](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Studs)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/42 "2016-09-14T17:48:57Z")
@Lyya’s original suggestion is spot-on. The devs basically have two options: 1. Create a generator that also creates souls and/or has necromancy for all 6 colors. This doesn’t really solve the problem though. It just means you’re constrained to 6 troops instead of 1. 2. Solve more systematically by nerfing/eliminating Valkyrie’s soul-related stuff while simultaneously buffing Soul gains overall. This actually solves the problem by both giving people more Souls overall, and by reducing the incremental value of using Valkyrie (so there’s less perceived need to rely on her). ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/43 "2016-09-14T17:53:36Z")
The second option will inevitably lead to a reduction in souls. 6 choices sounds good to me considering how many people use a mana generator ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/44 "2016-09-14T17:56:42Z")
That sounds needlessly pessimistic to me. I would like to give the devs the benefit of the doubt that they can adjust the situation without nerfing everyone in the process. ---
**Author:** ![KrudlerTheHorse](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/krudlerthehorse/32/9505_2.png) [@KrudlerTheHorse](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/KrudlerTheHorse)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/45 "2016-09-14T17:58:23Z")
Thank you for posting this, it’s really the _elephant in the room_, isn’t it? I feel like this isn’t really a conscious decision by the devs, more like something that got totally out of control and hasn’t been on the radar. Let’s do some serious bitching and see if we can get at least some stop-gap fixes in place! ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/46 "2016-09-14T18:01:00Z")
I would call it pragmatic. They would need to give 15 souls per kill to make the post Valkyrie era equivalent to now ---
**Author:** ![yonizaf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/yonizaf/32/1435_2.png) [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/47 "2016-09-14T18:05:19Z")
People can just stop using Valkyrie if they feel it’s limiting their options. Sure, soul gain will be slower, but so what? The game is there for fun, not for maximized efficiency. Just for the record, I’ve never felt the need to use Valkyrie for souls, and did not use her at all in any of my regular teams until I was almost done leveling everything. I do use her now, but that’s only because she fit well in my current team (I don’t really need souls anymore). ---
**Author:** ![Studs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/studs/32/3498_2.png) [@Studs](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Studs)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/48 "2016-09-14T18:10:52Z")
The problem is that earlier stage players really suffer, as @Lyya mentioned in her original post. When players should be most experimenting with different options and learning about the depth of the game is when they’re also the most constrained by Souls. This leads to the feeling that Valkyrie must be used in order to get the Souls you need to use other troops. And I seriously doubt Souls are generating much revenue. There’s really no reason for folks to be as constrained as they are, especially early on. I can’t imagine giving 60 Souls per battle would be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/49 "2016-09-14T18:14:58Z")
So what if they do? I don’t think the number is as high as you state, since you would factor in the Valkyie-less fights that currently generate a pittance of souls. I like the idea suggested by others that troop rarity (or base rarity) be used to determine the soul reward for a kill. That way, new players wouldn’t suddenly have a glut of souls just out of the tutorial. ---
**Author:** ![SirCookie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sircookie/32/13060_2.png) [@SirCookie](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/SirCookie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/50 "2016-09-14T18:20:42Z")
> [@TaliaParks](#): > > You can probably use Valkyrie 15-20% of the time and you’ll run out of Troops to level by Level 700. > > Source: My own damn experience in using Valkyrie about 25% of the time, ran out Troops to level at Level 525 and now have 140000+ Souls and counting (FAST). You’re on console though, right? It may not be quite so forgiving on PC/mobile. I’m Lv 717, VIP 7, been playing for about a year and using Valk way more than 80% of the time, but I still need lots of souls. (Although I am starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel.) ---
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/51 "2016-09-14T18:33:44Z")
You habe already started talking down the number of souls that would be required to replace Valkyrie;it is inevitable souls would be lost. Be great if they did give the 15 souls per kill. ---
**Author:** ![TaliaParks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/taliaparks/32/11738_2.png) [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/52 "2016-09-14T18:35:41Z")
> [@Robert](#): > > You habe already started talking down the number of souls that would be required to replace Valkyrie;it is inevitable souls would be lost. > > Be great if they did give the 15 souls per kill. Of course it would, x15 of any resource would be nice ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/53 "2016-09-14T18:43:15Z")
Yes, I would expect that the baseline soul generation without Valkyrie (I.e, souls per kill, as you stated arbitrarily at 15) would be lower than the total amount you currently get from a fight with Valkyrie. Bear in mind that souls per kill doesn’t factor in Valkyrie’s souls per cast, nor Necromancy. Ideally we’d be in a situation where using Valkyrie on your team gives you a 20-50% increase in soul reward, not a 1000% increase as it does today. Also ideally, using Valkyrie wouldn’t be a nerf from today; but not using her would be substantially better than it is today, subject to the rarity of the troops on the opposing team. ---
**Author:** ![yonizaf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/yonizaf/32/1435_2.png) [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/54 "2016-09-14T18:44:52Z")
> [@Studs](#): > > The problem is that earlier stage players really suffer, as @Lyya mentioned in her original post. When players should be most experimenting with different options and learning about the depth of the game is when they’re also the most constrained by Souls. This leads to the feeling that Valkyrie must be used in order to get the Souls you need to use other troops. I was an earlier stage player too once, you know. I don’t remember suffering, and I definitely don’t remember feeling that Valkyrie must be used for anything. Rather, I just leveled a single team that worked well enough in PVP, and did all my experimenting on quests and challenges, where low level troops still worked well enough. Also, you say early stage players are suffering because they can’t get souls to level many different troops, but surely they are suffering even more because they don’t even have most of the available troops. How can they experiment like that? We have to fix this situation and make sure everyone start with all available troops so they can experiment… Except it doesn’t work that way. Beside being a match-3 game, this is also a card collection game. It supposed to have a gradual build up, slowly getting more troops, slowly leveling them. I suppose there are some people out there who want a game where they can jump in and have everything available to choose from, so they can experiment with all combinations right away - but if they expect it here, they probably chose the wrong game. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/55 "2016-09-14T18:48:50Z")
In my opinion, the game doesn’t give enough avenues for exploration pre-ownership. Souls are an investment, and there are many “trap” cards that are a wasted investment to a burgeoning player. I feel this particular facet of the game is needlessly constraining to low-level players that if the devs feel souls are an interesting concept, should not have such a disproportionate reliance on a single troop. You might argue the game is just “for fun,” but that’s not an argument against a change, it is simply ambivalence. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/56 "2016-09-14T18:54:46Z")
> [@SirCookie](#): > > > [@TaliaParks](#): > > > > You can probably use Valkyrie 15-20% of the time and you’ll run out of Troops to level by Level 700. > > > > Source: My own damn experience in using Valkyrie about 25% of the time, ran out Troops to level at Level 525 and now have 140000+ Souls and counting (FAST). > > You’re on console though, right? It may not be quite so forgiving on PC/mobile. I’m Lv 717, VIP 7, been playing for about a year and using Valk way more than 80% of the time, but I still need lots of souls. (Although I am starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel.) Indeed, we put in lots of early soul bonuses on console, to help smooth out the soul-gain curve. ---
**Author:** ![SirCookie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sircookie/32/13060_2.png) [@SirCookie](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/SirCookie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/57 "2016-09-14T19:14:25Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > In my opinion, the game doesn’t give enough avenues for exploration pre-ownership. Souls are an investment, and there are many “trap” cards that are a wasted investment to a burgeoning player Agree with this. Also, I think it would be really nice if everyone gets 1 free refund of any troop of their choice per week (or month). Would help a bit recovering from bad investments. Mostly helpful for newer players. Late game, I’d want those troops leveled and traited anyway to get the kingdom star bonuses. ---
**Author:** ![yonizaf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/yonizaf/32/1435_2.png) [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/58 "2016-09-14T20:14:44Z")
> [@Lyya](#): > > You might argue the game is just “for fun,” but that’s not an argument against a change I never argued against a change. You may think the earning rate of souls is too low and should be higher, and you may be right. But that has nothing to do with Valkyrie, since, if true, it will be true all the same even if she didn’t exist (and she didn’t exist on the game’s launch, btw. people still got by). All I was saying is I can’t understand those who are currently ‘forced’ to use Valkyrie. Even with the game as it is, there is no reason to use her if you don’t want to. Your excuse to use her is for more freedom in experimentation, but always using her limits experimentation anyway, so… why use her at all? You actually gain more freedom if you pretend she does not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/59 "2016-09-14T20:33:04Z")
> [@yonizaf](#): > > You may think the earning rate of souls is too low and should be higher, and you may be right. I don’t. However, the “earning rate of souls” is defined by Valkyrie, and that’s the problem. Anyone who wants to level with any degree of efficiency (and we’re not talking min-maxing here, we’re talking the difference between leveling a troop in a few days vs. three weeks when considering the output discrepancy) is already using Valkyrie to level. Therefore, there’s no practical increase to the earning rate. > [@yonizaf](#): > > there is no reason to use her if you don’t want to That’s true. However, in game design (particularly game design with any element of versus play), efficiency is a motivating factor for a very large number of your players. When given a choice between doing something they dislike but is optimal, and something they like but is non-optimal, many will grumble and do the former. You run the very real risk of burning players out on the chaff when they were here for the wheat. As a thought exercise, let’s say the devs put Valkyrie’s ability instead on a troop without any redeeming utility (Dwarven Miner, for sake of argument). I’m willing to bet that, once people discovered his ability, they’d endeavor to throw him on whatever team they could get away with, cursing all the while, in the name of reaching that Promised Land where he’s no longer needed. Valkyrie at least has redeeming utility (and a _lot_ of redeeming utility) beyond that essential oil. > [@yonizaf](#): > > Your excuse to use her is for more freedom in experimentation, but always using her limits experimentation anyway That’s exactly my point. Troops scale oddly in this game, sometimes only coming into their own at levels 10 or 15ish. The substitute for sucking it up and running with a Valkyrie (even on your Jarl team) is to apply boatloads of patience. I think it’s fair to ask for a somewhat less-lopsided playing field. ---
**Author:** ![HKdirewolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hkdirewolf/32/21614_2.png) [@HKdirewolf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HKdirewolf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617/60 "2016-09-14T20:51:17Z")
How is this still talked about that much? Just wondering because the Devs already said they are working on multiple ways to fixing this issue. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617.md?page=2) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/getting-tired-of-valkyrie/10617.md?page=4)