# Famine badly needs a nerf **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [May 18, 2017, 9:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338 "2017-05-18T09:52:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Grundulum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 9:56am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/207 "2017-06-13T09:56:09Z")
But, just like Kerberos, that 50% is the average of my mana surges (0%), and the AI’s (100%), you see… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/208 "2017-06-13T10:11:57Z")
Famine should be diseased when casting so it will be more difficult for him to cast a second time. > [@Drathas](#): > > Sure Jinx gives you slightly less surges, but as someone showed above with high masteries even two Jinxes only brings the surge percentage down to just below 50%. Hardly, game changing. Yeah this information is one-year old and so on, it could have been changed… Or bug. Because as other said, one Jinx should be a -5% but it seems more a -10/15%… ---
**Author:** ![Drathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/drathas/32/7344_2.png) [@Drathas](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Drathas)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/209 "2017-06-13T10:17:22Z")
10% is still bugger all… Going from getting a surge 6 times out of ten vs 5 time… Yeah, that’s going to make me suddenly lose all the time… ---
**Author:** ![Whiskeyjack](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/whiskeyjack/32/65850_2.png) [@Whiskeyjack](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Whiskeyjack)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 11:20am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/210 "2017-06-13T11:20:54Z")
Hellcat, alchemist, moloch, desdaemona, dragon banner. Only traits required are fire link for alchemist and moloch. Forget about colour bonuses, this will always beat double famine teams. Often you can kill all the daemons in a single turn, and if you can’t then moloch can still drain them. Plus hellcat doesn’t hold enough mana to allow Psion to drain it and then cast straight away. ---
**Author:** ![htismaqe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/htismaqe/32/23893_2.png) [@htismaqe](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/htismaqe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/211 "2017-06-13T14:49:20Z")
Another day, another endless stream of Psion / Famine teams. Pissing away a really good game standing pat on player grief. ---
**Author:** ![Venar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/venar/32/36634_2.png) [@Venar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Venar)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/212 "2017-06-13T15:49:51Z")
On Yellow day, put the Guardian in front. Famine basically gives all your troops +magic each turn. (i still hate Famine and want it nerfed BTW) ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/213 "2017-06-13T16:50:44Z")
> [@Drathas](#): > > high masteries even two Jinxes only brings the surge percentage down to just below 50%. That is with just one Jinx, and that is on paper(in practice it actually proved to be more for me everytime i bothered checking, small samplesize and all inconclusive but still). Two Jinxes bring you down by 20-30% overall surge chance on paper basically halving it. ---
**Author:** ![Stan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stan/32/29888_2.png) [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/214 "2017-06-13T17:07:04Z")
The mana surge chance formula is, IIRC: mastery / (mastery + 100). Last time we looked into this, I think there was a difference between the console and PC calculation, and I’m not sure if that ever got resolved. Anyway, does anyone know for sure that Jinx reduces the mastery number in both places in that formula, or is it possible that it is only reducing the first. That is, could the trait be reducing the numerator and leaving the denominator untouched? For example, if my mastery were 300 on a given colour, giving a mana surge percentage of 75% (being 300 / 400), would applying a jinx reduce it to 60% (150 / 250), or 37.5% (150 / 400)? The effect of Jinx certainly feels more dramatic than I think it should. ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/215 "2017-06-13T17:40:16Z")
> [@Change to the Mastery math?](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/change-to-the-mastery-math/4123/3): > > Found it: > CHANCE = (LIMIT \* MASTERY) / (MASTERY + DECAY) > > New: LIMIT = 0.73 & DECAY = 62 > Old: LIMIT = 1 & DECAY = 100 According to that thread mastery chance got reworked at some point, and 300 nets you just above 60% on PC. No idea how it is on console. It is often recited that _Jinx_ affects masteries themselves not the % directly, though with my experience of a single _Jinx_ dipping my surge % as low as in the 30-40% range over several battles(again small samplesize: inconclusive) i am highly suspicious there is more to _Jinx_ than that, though it might just be bad luck. In any case registering surge chances against a single _Jinx_ proves to be impractical these days cause you know you only meet teams with two of them^^ ---
**Author:** ![Stan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stan/32/29888_2.png) [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/216 "2017-06-13T17:49:47Z")
When we ran numbers on console a few months ago, the formula was the same, but we still had the “old” formula, with Limit = 1 and Decay = 100, while PC players were reporting amounts consistent with the “new” formula. I’m not at my console, so I can’t verify that it is still the same, but I assume it is. It’s really difficult to even track results to take a sample, given that multiple surges can occur at once (though this is less of a problem with Jinx active), and there is no way to directly see what effect Jinx is having in-battle. ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338/217 "2017-06-13T22:47:16Z")
You can if you count the number of mana surges versus the number of gem match ;-). Cascade? You sould have to not count them. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/famine-badly-needs-a-nerf/24338.md?page=10)