# Energy and Sigils? **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [March 6, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767 "2018-03-06T21:36:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rinny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Rinny](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rinny)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/1 "2018-03-06T21:36:56Z")
Was there another game that uses energy as a pay to play currency? I know that GoW get’s it’s inspiration from other games and figured maybe when borrowing from someone else’s idea maybe there was a mistranslation. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/2 "2018-03-06T21:43:37Z")
Both are exactly the same but they call it sigils cause it look less like a P2W ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:08am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/3 "2018-03-07T08:08:24Z")
Many F2P games use an energy system of some sort, and yes, Sigils is just an energy system. Not all are energy systems are inherently bad. This one was disappointing because of how vocally against energy systems of all types Sirrian was for so long and this one jumps straight into the deep end by borrowing some of the very worst energy system mechanics, like being to buy it but it also being prohibitively expensive to do so. Often, the energy systems are tied to their main gameplay mode, so be thankful we don’t have that at least. ---
**Author:** ![NekrosLucem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/nekroslucem/32/37443_2.png) [@NekrosLucem](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/NekrosLucem)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:14am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/4 "2018-03-07T08:14:10Z")
@Mithran And your reply is why I have largely been more dismayed in GoW’s direction. Sure some may call it business. But I tend to disbelieve companies when they say they will or will not do something. I only figured maybe GoW was a wonderful exception because it was a new company. And thought hey maybe they have a good focus to not doing what others do. I was so wrong there. I will never assume a business will be different from others again. I can say that much. Honestly I thought GoW had, when I started, one of the best ideas to a F2P I had ever seen. Where they allowed free or paid players to gain access to pretty much anything. Just paid got there faster. Though a free player could do the same just with more time involved. I’ve played many F2P games and while you can do some things as a free. It was more of a trial game until you decided to pay and take it to the next level. ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:27am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/5 "2018-03-07T08:27:13Z")
I don’t remember when Sirrian said something that much against energy system… Even if, he can change his mind if incomes are not going well or if devs want to be bigger than they initially plan. The leaderboard is P2W, devs said it, it’s obvious. So if you are against it, you can live without taking part of it. PVP one is Grind2W, so both of them are out of my interest and I still enjoy the game 😉 . Aside the leaderboard, I don’t see how these game modes are P2W. Troops for gems? We get enough gems for that. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/6 "2018-03-07T17:40:35Z")
> [@turintuor](#): > > I don’t remember when Sirrian said something that much against energy system… > [@Worst Thing That's Ever Happened to Game](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/worst-thing-thats-ever-happened-to-game/11691/140): > > Absolutely! slight_smile We’re all friends here, and your points are clear, and well-made. That’s one of the reasons I wanted to jump in and discuss! I personally think we strike a nice balance between the two. If our main focus was making money, we’d have implemented an energy system. Fortunately, our publisher 505 Games, are great guys who trusted us to make a game that was free of energy systems, so we could focus more on the gameplay. All I’ve really been arguing is that reality dict… ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/7 "2018-03-07T20:19:53Z")
“Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don’t have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months).” In this case people who spend money will get orb of power and get zuul quicker So raid and invasion mode are clearly P2W mode, if you can’t see that, something is wrong ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/8 "2018-03-07T20:27:31Z")
I think this is a “sky is falling” kind of thing. An energy system means you cannot play the game except at the rate the developers specify. It’s intended to help control the economy by ensuring simple facts like “an F2P player can’t fit more than 5 games per hour into their life.” Players who pay are able to get more of whatever the currency happens to be. I have played games where the _entire game_ revolves around the energy system. You cannot play it _at all_ if you are out of energy. Not even a “for fun” match with no rewards. You wake up, play your 5 rounds, then have to wait 20 minutes if you want to play again. Upside: games like this tend to distribute a lot of rewards per play, comparatively speaking. Of course, you can pay money to get more “energy”. It usually turns out to be one of the worst uses of your money, if you calculate things up. GoW has (observably) two weekly-rotating game modes that are on a daily energy system. It is a competitive mode where you are scored by your cumulative performance, but also you stop receiving prizes after you reach some maximum score. This mode screams “I need a cap”. If sigils were not used, a 1-person guild could grind out raid bosses and invasions solo in a matter of a few hours. So the sigils are used to tweak the difficulty, making it so a guild needs _x_ members performing at _y_ efficiency to reach the maximum. Beyond that maximum there are _no rewards_. You can buy more sigils with gems, but that turns out to be a bad deal: it makes it so smaller guilds can make it, or large guilds can operate at a lower efficiency, but the rewards for cashing out for sigils do not pay for themselves. Thus, it is a good energy system: sigils are one of the stupidest things a player can exchange for money, and don’t help a guild do “better” than another guild in any context since there’s no reward for overkilling invasions or RBs. I feel like people are going on about it as if people who bought the highest shop tiers all get 50 free VIP keys or other highly multiplied rewards. They don’t. They get the same rewards everyone else gets for opening portals/toppling towards. Maybe a little faster. They probably end the event with extra sigils left over. They can use them to play hard matches for less rewards than a PvP fight. Exciting, right? It’s being described as “getting orb of power quicker”. To qualify that, you’re going to have to tell me how an active, 30-member guild who could open every portal/topple all towers gets more orbs by going T7 than if they don’t. In this case, “quicker” only means “by Wednesday” instead of “by Friday”. It is insignificant. This would be very different if the prize for T7 included extra orbs. It doesn’t. If you’re getting your britches in a wad over “oh no but a 24-member guild could get all the prizes and only my awesome 30-member guild should” then go pound sand, Guild Wars is the mode where you get to lord your status over them. I think it’s OK if GoW makes their energy system something only stupid people buy into. So long as I don’t need sigils to play PvP or Explore, I’m not upset. But I guarantee if they try that garbage I’m gone within a few weeks unless there are significant increases to things like “the rate of diamond acquisition”. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/9 "2018-03-07T20:47:04Z")
> [@Rickygervais](#): > > In this case people who spend money will get orb of power and get zuul quicker… I would like to correct your setence: _In this case people who spend **gems** will slap each other over and over until one of them get one Orb of Power hoping to someday craft a boring Mythic._ The features still provide some good experience for players that enjoy the challenges presented, guilds can work together towards goals/rewards they think are fine considering the investiment of gems and time. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/10 "2018-03-07T20:51:32Z")
> [@Razzagor](#): > > I would like to correct your setence: In this case people who spend gems will slap each other over and over until one of them get one Orb of Power hoping to someday craft a boring Mythic Top 100 win orbs so in fact they will get him quicker then someone who spend nothing ---
**Author:** ![Orochi2018](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bcef8e/32.png) [@Orochi2018](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Orochi2018)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/11 "2018-03-07T20:52:27Z")
Every gacha game,like GoW uses an energy system.However Gow is only limited with Raid and Invasion,while other gacha games are limited everywhere,but in exchange for that,our game has the absolute worst rates with Mythics ever known to any gacha game,and there are thousands of them.I dunno how is it even psosible,that they allow these rates here. ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/12 "2018-03-07T21:01:46Z")
> [@Rickygervais](#): > > Top 100 win orbs so in fact they will get gim quicker then someone who spend nothing Yes, but only my collector’s side in interested in “Goth Boi”. Thinking what would change in my game if i would simply get him i realize that it would be very little… So it doesn’t bothers me as much as having uneven numbers of diamonds because of the Gnome’s rewards. 😅 If or when we get daily tasks on PC/Mobile i wonder if the devs would be willing to introduce some tasks rewarding Sigils during Raid/Invasion weeks. In this sense they would diversify the distribution of it for the F2P players. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/13 "2018-03-07T21:04:39Z")
I just want to mention the fact the mythic suck change nothing, it could be some cosmetic for the top 100 it would be the same in the sense the only way you can get it is if you pay to get it ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/14 "2018-03-07T21:20:24Z")
> [@Rickygervais](#): > > …the only way you can get it is if you pay to get it The **most reallistic way for the near future** i would say. But think about it Ricky, the fact that this Mythic is not a big deal is a relief for all the players that won’t get it in the near future. Eventually we’ll get used to simply ignore it’s existence as there are plenty of more reliable and fun Mythics out there to be chased. Yes, it doesn’t changes the fact this race for the top is aimed to the ones who can spend such amount of gems and time. But if anything the core game didn’t changed at all, the good old gamemodes and minigames are still here, and some new stuff was introduced. Players can totally ignore the new gamemodes and minigames if they don’t like it, or play only the free battles for some small rewards and maybe one or two orbs or make some investiment with their guildies and chase for some extra rewards. It’s on the players hands to use their time however they prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/15 "2018-03-07T21:22:23Z")
I totally agree with that, but people who say it’s not a P2W mode are wrong 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/16 "2018-03-07T21:27:30Z")
Oh. I barely even noticed there were rewards for the top 100. That _is_ hot garbage, given that your score is most directly tied to “number of sigils”. ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/17 "2018-03-07T21:28:09Z")
Garbage but still accelerate the process ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/18 "2018-03-07T21:37:34Z")
I think they try to point out that it’s not P2P (Pay to play) and in this sense the features are **not totally** P2W. If the _ultimate goal_ is to craft Zuul’Goth, then even a player that doesn’t spend a single gem could do it, maybe in two years or more (possibly more). It’s just not a _reasonable_ timeframe considering the constant weekly and monthly releases. But if some players are willing to spend gems, that can be obtained for free, to reduce the time to finish this objective then we still don’t have a 100% P2W model. Maybe that’s more or less the perspective. Better to simply ignore the leaderboards, it’s unreallistic to expect that someone will be the first place four times in each event and craft one of the most disappointing Mythics out there… ---
**Author:** ![Rickygervais](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/19 "2018-03-07T21:43:24Z")
but even if you finish 100 you get a major orb of chaos and if you lucky enough you get a major orb or growth and that save you lot of time 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Razzagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/razzagor/32/50037_2.png) [@Razzagor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Razzagor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767/20 "2018-03-07T21:47:35Z")
If the devs would consider @TimeKnight’s suggestion to change the orb of growth to give 5 Levels instead of one then things would be more balanced/reasonable about crafting Major Orbs. > [@Orb of Growth idea](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/orb-of-growth-idea/36754): > > I notice that the Orb of Chaos can drop single Growth/Wisdom/Acension/Clan with roughly the same rate. Orb of Clan could be useful in some condition, others using it for troops, so there won’t be much of a problem. But you want to craft Zuul’Goth, there is one issue. To craft Orbs of power from all minor Orb, you need 4 of them to make major, except Orbs of Growth with require 20, which doesn’t seem fair, consider it’s as rare as other orbs. My suggestion is to make single Orb of Growth give 5… [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/energy-and-sigils/36767.md?page=2)