# End Game PvP worst state ever?
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450
**Category:** Gameplay Chat (PlayStation 4/Xbox One)
**Created:** [December 30, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450 "2017-12-30T00:17:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/21 "2017-12-30T17:02:43Z")
> [@Kurokazna](#):
>
> The reason I retired was because only one invasion team was viable.
That complaint never made any sense to me. You can’t do anything about a stale defense meta, you have very little choice in whom you face; but if you tire of an attacking team, change it. I can’t recall a time ever where there was only one or two viable offensive setups; free from the shackles of stupid AI, many troop combinations become viable in the hands of a player.
Now, if instead of “viable” you meant “optimal,” perhaps you are right. Even so, if it’s enough to ruin your experience, then I don’t know where else to look but inward. Fixing a stale offense is but a team slot away.
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### Author:  [@Lardy-Porker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lardy-Porker)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/22 "2017-12-30T17:17:00Z")
> [@Lyya](#):
>
> I can’t recall a time ever where there was only one or two viable offensive setups
THIS. There are literally dozens of offense teams I’ve tried, and the vast majority win 80-90% in 3 trophy PVP. The difference between the ‘optimal’ attack team and the rest is marginal at best.
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### Author:  [@Lardy-Porker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lardy-Porker)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/23 "2017-12-30T17:20:59Z")
> [@Kurokazna](#):
>
> Plus there’s so much new stuff that I’d have to learn the game all over again, and I don’t feel like integrating myself into a new guild. Too much effort for my taste.
@Kurokazna we’re losing one of our 1000+ level players at the end of the week. If you change your mind about playing in a guild we’d love to have you. We are supportive and nice and have a great Discord full of discussion, play tips, sample teams and bad jokes.
If you’re interested, here’s our ad: [✨ ✨ #53 rank HOMEBOUND -NOT Recruiting (30/30) ✨ ✨](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sparkles-sparkles-53-rank-homebound-recruiting-29-30-sparkles-sparkles/33626)
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### Author:  [@The\_Freak](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/The_Freak)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/24 "2017-12-30T20:17:11Z")
I’m in the “endgame” (Level 1200+) and the trick is finding new ways to beat the current meta. There are many more fun troops than you realize. As you can see on the Invasion Leaderboard on [gowdb.com](http://gowdb.com) by @Lyya, I’m by far the only one in the Top 50 who can say uses a multitude of varying teams in ranked PvP.
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### Author:  [@RiverSong](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/RiverSong)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/25 "2017-12-30T22:28:13Z")
I think the stats might be a tad misleading, not that I want to take anything away from your use of a multitude of troops. Take mine, for example:
This would show that I’ve used Gorgotha in approximately a third of my invasions. While he has fronted a lot of teams for me, it doesn’t necessarily mean that I’ve used the exact same team over 12k times. Just saying.
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### Author:  [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/26 "2017-12-30T23:10:05Z")
Best way to get rid of them is destroy them, if they keep losing they will switch their def.
This is what happened with justice league and the troll-kraken teams
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### Author:  [@Trajic](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Trajic)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/27 "2017-12-30T23:42:00Z")
What happened to Justice League was introduction of Famine, Wisp and Kraken meta.
… They haven’t been destroyed, but outperformed by other teams.
If anything, nerf was what slowed Krakens down, and GW changes (unique troop bonus) destroyed the wisp meta. With so many slots needed for GW (at least 12, now), few people want to keep Wisps around and throw it as PvP defense, with the current bug that reverts defenses to the PvP one. No one keeps duplicates in that slot anymore, I believe.
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### Author:  [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/28 "2017-12-30T23:47:13Z")
“IF” at some point in the future the developers move the Daily Tasks to PC/Mobile that will help the player struggling to stop using the exact same Invade team non-stop forever.
I suppose if they don’t want extra daily Gems… Then they can just continue with the single Invade team.
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### Author:  [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)
#### Post date: [December 30, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/29 "2017-12-30T23:56:48Z")
> [@Trajic](#):
>
> What happened to Justice League was introduction of Famine
What happenened to justice league is the nerf of justice, then people started to lose more and decided to change their defense team. But this team is still solid in invasion, i use it against dawnbringer, kraken is the perfect troop against barrier
and i also use justice league against drakulis and the 3 gw troop. For obvious reason
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### Author:  [@VenusBlue](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/VenusBlue)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/30 "2017-12-31T00:08:03Z")
On console your daily tasks aren’t limited to invading pvp, unless it’s specifically stated win x amount of ranked battles. I usually do my tasks in explore to farm traitstones. On occasion i’ll take certain teams into pvp but i usually stick to what i know works most efficiently there. Maybe it’ll be different on pc or mobile? Hopefully it won’t be changed here any time soon because they make farming for stones just a little less tedious.
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### Author:  [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/31 "2017-12-31T00:25:15Z")
Another reason we always see same defense team is because the AI is so retard, i tried several team when i was destroying the opponent and if i gave that team to a 4yo child he would be able to win 98% of the time. But of course the AI is able to lost every time.
I asked several time for a replay feature, you could be able to watch your defense replay and see what the AI really does. Cause of course when i press the “test my team” button the AI doesn’t react the same then when i fight someone with the same team in pvp.
The AI been reworked but still have lot of improvement to make more Viable defense team
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### Author:  [@UKresistance](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/UKresistance)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/32 "2017-12-31T00:55:07Z")
Maybe in regular pvp, fight occasionally against their GW defense team for added variety.
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### Author:  [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/33 "2017-12-31T03:03:59Z")
Reminder:
The game is set up to give you rewards if your PvP team _loses_. The game designers seem like they thought about making you not care if people could easily defeat your defense team.
The only way you’re punished from losing in defense is it affects your “win rate”. I’m not sure how that ties to anything else. But I do know since that’s true, it represents the game designers not communicating well with each other.
The game designers need to decide between:
- **Win/Loss on defense matters** , so we’ll just have to face the same single team the AI knows how to play forever. (Probably remove defense rewards in this case, since you have to lose for Revenge matches and who the Hell wants to lose?)
- **Win/Loss on defense stops mattering** , so people aren’t constantly reminded to pick the cheesiest defense team they can build. (Remove the defense record from the win rate.)
- **Chase something else** the players want, like moving all of the buttons at the top of the screen to the bottom, or reimagining the game with an 8-bit color palette, or a new dubstep soundtrack for the game.
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### Author:  [@jeno](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jeno)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 3:26am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/34 "2017-12-31T03:26:51Z")
> [@Rickygervais](#):
>
> Cause of course when i press the “test my team” button the AI doesn’t react the same then when i fight someone with the same team in pvp.
is this real? because i start to feel like this is real. i tried many combo using defense test but they do act very stupid unlike in pvp. i tried to lose by casting less spell, not taking 4 matches, avoid skull, take color i don’t use, but they still didn’t win. but if the same team i face in pvp, they act better.
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### Author:  [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/35 "2017-12-31T03:44:41Z")
Yup it’s true, i was testing a team with famine and he was full and never cast, and when you play against, you can be sure the second he is full he will drain you . Same for gorgota when i tested him he usually try to match skull when he is full and when you fight against him he will always cast if no other troop are full
I don’t push that test button anymore since it’s clearly not doing the same . when i build a team i need to watch my opponent and presume my troop do the same patern, I got more success doing it that way
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### Author:  [@Rickygervais](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rickygervais)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/36 "2017-12-31T03:52:47Z")
> [@jeno](#):
>
> i tried to lose by casting less spell, not taking 4 matches, avoid skull, take color i don’t use, but they still didn’t win. but if the same team i face in pvp, they act better.
Exactly you need to help the AI and it still too stupid to even try to win
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### Author:  [@Fleg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fleg)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/37 "2017-12-31T04:03:07Z")
That’s not totally true. You make 3x more glory from a defense win over a loss, adds up when you get attacked 100’s of times in a week. Also, if you want to finish as high as possible on the leaderboard you can’t afford to lose every defense.
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### Author:  [@Calv1n](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Calv1n)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 5:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/38 "2017-12-31T05:05:06Z")
Fleg I think therein lies the issue. There is an incentive for the best defence teams even if it’s not readily apparent to most. Everyone does however see the win/loss % and that is a tough one for folks to get past even if those wins are “marginal” gains versus what’s best for the “community” (IMO and others of course that want to see something beyond the meta defence teams every match week after week)
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### Author:  [@Fleg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fleg)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/39 "2017-12-31T05:30:29Z")
If you think taking away the win/loss % stats will solve the meta in pvp problem you must be crazy. Won’t make any difference whatsoever.
The only solution is more “moa” events.
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### Author:  [@Calv1n](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Calv1n)
#### Post date: [December 31, 2017, 7:27am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/end-game-pvp-worst-state-ever/34450/40 "2017-12-31T07:27:14Z")
No one can know for sure unless they try it. I think it couldn’t hurt any to try.
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