# Elite Levels - Discussion and Critique
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576
**Category:** Uncategorized
**Created:** [October 17, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576 "2019-10-17T04:28:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@EliteMasterEric](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/EliteMasterEric)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/1 "2019-10-17T04:28:28Z")
Named after the Deeds thread I made, here’s some useful info on Elite Levels:
Upgrading a troop’s Elite level is best thought of as a Delve, except there’s only 3 quality levels, it takes Souls instead of Gold, and uses Medals instead of Treasures.
By spending up to 3 Medals (not Badges or Tokens) of any rarity, you have a chance to upgrade a troop to the next Elite level. Attempts at each level cost more souls:
- Level 1: 10000 Souls per Medal
- Level 2: 20000 Souls per Medal
- Level 3: 30000 Souls per Medal
The chance of achieving the given Elite level is based on the quantity and rarity of the Medals used, the Elite level you are pursuing, and on the base rarity of the target troop.
This chart by @Ashasekayi shows the costs and probabilities.
The probabilities are additive, so if you are upgrading a Mythic, using 2 Legendary Medals at once has a 66% chance to succeed, while using them one at a time has a (1 - (0.66 \* 0.66)) = 56.44% chance to succeed, but if the first attempt succeeds you get to keep the other medal.
The stat bonuses you receive are based on the troop’s Role (remember, that thing they added to every card during 4.6?).
> **Stat Bonuses for Elite Levels, By Role (Click to Expand)**
>
> Defender:
>
> - Level 1: +1 Armor +3 Life (TOTAL: +1 Armor +3 Life)
> - Level 2: +2 Armor +6 Life (TOTAL: +3 Armor +9 Life)
> - Level 3: +4 Armor +8 Life (TOTAL: +7 Armor +17 Life)
>
> Warrior:
>
> - Level 1: +1 Attack +2 Life (TOTAL: +1 Attack +2 Life)
> - Level 2: +1 Attack +2 Life +1 Magic (TOTAL: +2 Attack +4 Life +1 Magic)
> - Level 3: +2 Attack +2 Armor +2 Life +1 Magic (TOTAL: +4 Attack +2 Armor +6 Life +2 Magic)
>
> Striker:
>
> - Level 1: +1 Magic (TOTAL: +1 Magic)
> - Level 2: +1 Attack +1 Armor +1 Life +1 Magic (TOTAL: +1 Attack +1 Armor +1 Life +2 Magic)
> - Level 3: +1 Attack +1 Armor +1 Life +2 Magic (TOTAL: +2 Attack +2 Armor +2 Life +4 Magic)
>
> Assassin:
>
> - Level 1: +1 Magic (TOTAL: +1 Magic)
> - Level 2: +2 Attack +1 Magic (TOTAL: +2 Attack +2 Magic)
> - Level 3: +2 Attack +2 Magic (TOTAL: +4 Attack +4 Magic)
>
> Warmaster:
>
> - Level 1: +1 Attack +1 Armor +1 Life (TOTAL: +1 Attack +1 Armor +1 Life)
> - Level 2: +2 Attack +2 Armor +2 Life (TOTAL: +3 Attack +3 Armor +3 Life)
> - Level 3: +3 Attack +3 Armor +3 Life (TOTAL: +6 Attack +6 Armor +6 Life)
>
> Generator:
>
> - Level 1: +2 Armor +2 Life (TOTAL: +2 Armor +2 Life)
> - Level 2: +5 Armor +3 Life (TOTAL: +7 Armor +5 Life)
> - Level 3: +7 Armor +5 Life (TOTAL: +14 Armor +10 Life)
>
> Support:
>
> - Level 1: +1 Magic (TOTAL: +1 Magic)
> - Level 2: +2 Armor +2 Life +1 Magic (TOTAL: +2 Armor +2 Life +2 Magic)
> - Level 3: +2 Armor +2 Life +2 Magic (TOTAL: +4 Armor +4 Life +4 Magic)
>
> Warlock:
>
> - Level 1: +1 Magic (TOTAL: +1 Magic)
> - Level 2: +1 Armor +3 Life +1 Magic (TOTAL: +1 Armor +3 Life +2 Magic)
> - Level 3: +1 Attack +2 Armor +4 Life +1 Magic (TOTAL: +1 Attack +3 Armor +7 Life +3 Magic)
>
> Mage:
>
> - Level 1: +1 Magic (TOTAL: +1 Magic)
> - Level 2: +2 Magic (TOTAL: +3 Magic)
> - Level 3: +3 Magic (TOTAL: +6 Magic)
---
### Author:  [@actreal](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/actreal)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2019, 12:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/2 "2019-10-17T12:40:31Z")
Huh. Looks like the devs worked out the maths well here.
Expected medal cost of using medals the level below (i.e. individual 33.33% probability):
- using 3 at a time = 3 medals
- using 2 at a time = 2.9999 medals
- using 1 at a time = 2.9999 medals
So gamble or go for the certainty freely in the knowledge you’re not losing EPV. 😋
Edit: This math (looks like it) goes all the way down too.
Expected medal cost of using medals 2 levels below (i.e. individual 11.11% probability):
- using 3 at a time = ~9 medals
- using 2 at a time = ~9 medals
- using 1 at a time = ~9 medals
---
### Author:  [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2019, 12:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/3 "2019-10-17T12:43:51Z")
Here’s a breakdown of the enhancements:
---
### Author:  [@EliteMasterEric](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/EliteMasterEric)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/4 "2019-10-17T14:12:06Z")
Aaah, the odds decrease over the upgrades. Didn’t see that. Thanks @Ashasekayi!
Added your table to the OP and removed my incorrect numbers.
---
### Author:  [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/5 "2019-10-17T14:21:07Z")
You’re welcome. 😸
---
### Author:  [@EliteMasterEric](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/EliteMasterEric)
#### Post date: [October 17, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/6 "2019-10-17T19:51:53Z")
Someone on Discord pointed out that if you equip 3 Attack medals (the Epic I believe), that gives +12 Attack, and Irongut’s Elite Levels give him +4 meaning you can get +16 Attack, and thus +16% Devour chance.
Depending on Horde level, building teams that don’t rely on Earth’s Fury will become more and more consistent.
---
### Author:  [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/7 "2019-10-18T20:50:20Z")
For levels 2 and 3, is it 20k and 30k souls per medal, or total (for two and three medals respectively)? 10k souls per medal makes sense (and thus it would make sense to spend higher rarity medals on lower rarity troops, which would halve the overall cost of raising elite level).
---
### Author:  [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/8 "2019-10-18T22:52:08Z")
> [@Mana\_Surgeon](#):
>
> For levels 2 and 3, is it 20k and 30k souls per medal, or total (for two and three medals respectively)?
Per medal
Bronze: 10,000
Silver: 20,000
Gold: 30,000
Total Cost: 60,000 souls
---
### Author:  [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)
#### Post date: [October 18, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/9 "2019-10-18T23:13:43Z")
Ah, so the cost is tied per attempt to get the elite level, not to the medals you spend trying to get the elite level (I think we crossed lines talking about “medals,” but you answered my question, thanks). That’s too bad. Not a whole lot of incentive to spend higher-rarity medals on lower-rarity troops, except maybe to save time.
---
### Author:  [@007](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/007)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2019, 3:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/10 "2019-10-26T03:34:37Z")
I Just think it is also necessary to hilight that all of this is only a CHANCE, so it also can happen we spend a million souls and several medals (not tokens or badges but medals) for nothing.
Besides, there are troops which it would be most important to upgrade attack just like the example above, Magic makes no difference at all, and why to sacrifice mythic medals for that?
---
### Author:  [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/11 "2019-10-26T03:42:14Z")
Well, it’s only a chance if you gamble with medals that don’t match the rarity of the troop. Matching medals (or higher rarity) give a guarenteed upgrade.
---
### Author:  [@007](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/007)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2019, 6:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/12 "2019-10-26T06:52:48Z")
You are completely right but in the case of using medals of aranaea for upgrading irongut just like the example mentioned above it won’t work then. These situations would (or shoukd) be better explained on my personal opinion.
---
### Author:  [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2019, 7:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/13 "2019-10-26T07:15:32Z")
> [@Ashasekayi](#):
>
> Well, it’s only a chance if you gamble with medals that don’t match the rarity of the troop. Matching medals (or higher rarity) give a guarenteed upgrade.
And therein lies the problem, kinda. The list of mythics I would care to elite is significantly longer than the list of anything lower rarity, particularly of anything ultra-rare or lower. And roughly about 70% of the tokens dropping are of this rarity, with no way to “target” higher rarities at all.
Note that a simple cumulative progress bar for elite levels instead of RNG would have completely circumvented the need for this with the same total expected level of long term progression. It seems that, despite claims to the contrary, they _want_ people to gamble medal upgrades.
And I also know that they put that they were going to make elite levels some kind of requirement for 21 star plus, but I also know that I’ll probably never get that far because of the other bottlenecks, nor is there even a hint and what that might entail (2 troops to elite 3? 20 troops to elite 1? what?).
I don’t mind the souls costs associated (it’d be, for example, 90k souls to elite level **1** a single mythic with just cedrics medals on average both now and with a progress bar) or even the grind length, but I don’t like that the grind doesn’t do a very good job of breaking itself up into managable chunks. My brain is already registering anything cedric or below as a zero, and thats most runs, and even some _sessions_ at this point.
---
### Author:  [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2019, 11:57am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/14 "2019-10-26T11:57:34Z")
> [@Mithran](#):
>
> . It seems that, despite claims to the contrary, they _want_ people to gamble medal upgrades.
Or, they want people to buy those higher rarity badges/medals in flash offers.
> [@Mithran](#):
>
> Note that a simple cumulative progress bar for elite levels instead of RNG would have completely circumvented the need for this with the same total expected level of long term progression.
This would have been a great fix for the system. But, they’ve made it clear that they are going full tilt down the road of Russian roulette mechanics.
In the case of Explore, I just don’t have the time for that ride with the current drop rates.
---
### Author:  [@Grundulum](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Grundulum)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/15 "2019-10-26T12:28:43Z")
I’ve more or less switched to using a gold farming team at difficulty 10 at this point. I only get to open boss chests every other battle, but I am accumulating enough gold that I might be able to afford to push a faction to Hoard level 199 (which, in addition to doubling my bonus, will be further enhanced once I start picking up enough deeds to get to Kingdom Level 14).
So I’ve given up on trying to earn tokens at difficulty 12.
---
### Author:  [@007](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/007)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/16 "2019-10-26T16:41:06Z")
Besides, as it is said that is all random, there is no reason to believe that there is any difference related to the rewards. The only difference is about the amount of shards we earn which is not that much comparing levels 10 and 12 btw
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### Author:  [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/17 "2019-10-26T18:56:27Z")
I felt like this is kind of how the system _should_ go. When I saw all the knobs and dials my gut told me a lot of people might benefit from farming less-than-12.
When there’s knobs and dials, it’s obvious but boring if you get the best results for cranking it all the way up. It’s more interesting for players if there’s some tradeoff and a “sweet spot”. In your case, you’ve identified a secondary goal that doesn’t dramatically slow down your token farming. Little tradeoffs like this are pretty brilliant and why I like the design of this feature.
But then you get the unsatisfying question, “If level 12 is actually sub-optimal, why does it exist?”
---
### Author:  [@Magnusimus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Magnusimus)
#### Post date: [October 26, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/elite-levels-discussion-and-critique/58576/18 "2019-10-26T20:42:13Z")
My guess would be so that those at level 12 (optimized tokens) have a little nerf to gold-over-time and, by extension, legendary tasks.