# Dropping ranks faster than climbing them **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [June 5, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971 "2016-06-05T06:33:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/21 "2016-06-05T13:54:12Z")
The main problem with the rank system is all forms of deduction have been nullified. It is currently impossible to lose an AI defend atm due to a glitch. On top of that, they rescaled the values for a 3 trophy. The 3 trophy battles give a huge amount of points with an extremely minimal reduction for a lose. They also cut back how many points a person loses from an AI defend lose to the point that 1 normal win can ignore 3-7 AI defend loses. This system works good for getting to rank 1, but it turns the leaderboard into whoever has the most time. All forms of loses need to be penalized a lot harder as one’s rating gets higher. Over 10,000? Each AI defend lose will lose slightly more points and every PvP lose will be in the triple digits. And just scale it up somehow so that it keeps people’s rating below 30,000ish and other absurdly high numbers unless they can maintain a consistent team for winning. There would then be a problem with disconnects, but a rescale like this would only effect the top 10% or so. ---
**Author:** ![Rasper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/rasper/32/2363_2.png) [@Rasper](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rasper)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/22 "2016-06-05T14:38:09Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > The main problem with the rank system is all forms of deduction have been nullified. It is currently impossible to lose an AI defend atm due to a glitch. I hope that ‘glitch’ never gets fixed. Or if it does you only lose points once you reach rank 1. ---
**Author:** ![captain\_video](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@captain\_video](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/captain_video)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/23 "2016-06-05T14:44:18Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > All forms of loses need to be penalized a lot harder as one’s rating gets higher. Over 10,000? Each AI defend lose will lose slightly more points and every PvP lose will be in the triple digits. […] This is an extremely bad idea. Do you know how vociferous the complaints would be about how someone lost 1000+ hard-earned points to a purposefully cheating AI? It would be enough to destroy the game. In the ELO rating system (used in chess and a number of games on Steam) your point loss is capped at a relatively small number no matter how much weaker your opponent is. ELO wouldn’t work here, unfortunately, because there is no direct PvP, it’s all simulated vs. the AI. From what I see, the complaints all seem to be tethered to the idea that it’s unfair to expect players with time restrictions to compete for rewards against those who, regardless of personal circumstance, are able to play GoW every waking hour of the day. A better solution, IMHO, would be to make an award proportional to how many matches you have time to play after reaching Tier 1. We get an event key for every 60 successful defends (temporarily broken), what about an event key for every 60 wins after Tier 1? Or make it more targeted and drop a random arcane stone every 60 wins. That way everyone has something to play for. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/24 "2016-06-05T14:53:01Z")
I have often thought that offense and defense should be completely separate, with their own leaderboards and rewards. In an ideal world defense would be considered more of an incubator to give the devs data on what sorts of teams the computer plays well, in order for them to build interesting challenges and improve the AI strategy. ---
**Author:** ![yonizaf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/yonizaf/32/1435_2.png) [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/25 "2016-06-05T15:25:56Z")
> [@Tacet](#): > > The main problem with the rank system is all forms of deduction have been nullified. No kidding. The ONLY problem with the ranking system is that it is a ranking system. As in, no matter what you do, only 100 people can be in the top 100, only 1000 people can be in the top 1000, and so on. As there are more than 10K people who want to be in the top 100 - or at least top 1000 - there will inevitably be lots of people complaining that the system is not good because it is too hard for them to get in the top 100 or 1K. Excuses will vary, from “it’s unfair that lower levels get more points”, through “top players are surely cheating” to “I deserve a chance even if I have time constraints”, and of course they will offer all kind of ideas to fix the ‘problem’. But they are wrong in one thing. It’s not “too hard” for everyone to get into the top 100 or 1000, its **downright impossible**. If you ‘fix’ the system in a way that some people have it easier to get in, it would automatically mean that some other people will have to stay out, and after the ‘fix’, those other people will be the ones who put the more effort (compared to the ones who came in), and they will rightfully complain that it’s too hard for them to get in no matter how hard they try - and so you’re back to square one. Want a solution that makes everyone happy? Your only choice is to do away with any ranking system, and just stick to reward for amount of points - that is of course the current tier system, which you can expand much further for additional rewards, until maybe not everyone can get everything, but at least it’s a static goal, and nobody feel like they are being unfairly robbed by someone else. But if you do want a ranking system, then know that this is how it works, and stop complaining and looking for solutions to problems that don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Pasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@Pasa](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Pasa)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/26 "2016-06-05T15:28:32Z")
[quote=“captain\_video, post:23, topic:7971, full:true”] > [@Tacet](#): > > All forms of loses need to be penalized a lot harder as one’s rating gets higher. Over 10,000? Each AI defend lose will lose slightly more points and every PvP lose will be in the triple digits. […] This is an extremely bad idea. Do you know how vociferous the complaints would be about how someone lost 1000+ hard-earned points to a purposefully cheating AI? [/quote] Why, then we could introduce X-hour shields that protect your points from loss for some gems. Then … HEY! stop beating me! ---
**Author:** ![StormChasee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@StormChasee](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/StormChasee)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/27 "2016-06-05T16:21:19Z")
I worked my up to #50 on Monday with the holiday, but I didn’t expect to stay there. That took 12 hours. I work for a living and don’t have 12 hours a day I can commit to stay in the top 100 for a week. After I retire, maybe. What I would like to see is better consistency in the value of the games. My tough game is rarely worth more than 30 yet I see people averaging 40 or so. To be competitive I would have to play like twice the number of games. I’ve also seen times when my weak game was against a higher rated team than the tough game was in the next offering. I would like to see offering of 5 opponents. Toughest is always rated over 7000 and worth say 40 points. Second is always against a line-up 6-7,000 and worth say 30 points. Third is always against a line-up 5-6,000 and worth say 20 points. fourth is always against a line-up 3-5,000 and worth say 15 points. The weakest is always a line-up \<3,000 and worth say 10 points. The specific ranges isn’t important here, but the concept that each level of opponent will have a team with a certain range is. The specific number of points each game is worth likewise isn’t as important as the point that each level will be worth a specific amount. With the above you would have a limit of say 50 games a day or 250 a week that would count towards pvp ranking. That way quality is as important as quantity and everybody is on the same playing field. Again the specific numbers aren’t as important as the concept. ---
**Author:** ![Pasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@Pasa](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Pasa)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/28 "2016-06-05T17:25:09Z")
> [@StormChasee](#): > > With the above you would have a limit of say 50 games a day or 250 a week that would count towards pvp ranking. That way quality is as important as quantity and everybody is on the same playing field. Again the specific numbers aren’t as important as the concept. That sounds good. However the numbers DO matter and matter a lot really. Depending how the game count relies to a player’s plans. Also if it’s closed budget the disconnects and similar havaria would hurt a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Cell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/cell/32/5524_2.png) [@Cell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Cell)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/29 "2016-06-05T17:28:37Z")
I thought of a possible solution to the ranked rewards dilemma here: > [@Possible Solution to Ranked rewards](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/possible-solution-to-ranked-rewards/7986): > > So I have been following the threads And And came to what I feel may be a middle ground to ranked rewards. First off I believe that ranked rewards are quite fine as it is but with over 25k players 96+% of us will be unable to reach a place to obtain even the lowest ranked reward with a useful arcane stone (1000th place) so I pondered about having 2 ranked reward areas, one exactly as it is now based on your standings at the end of the week, and another based on the Tier rewards with just m… I think that this approach is much better then capping what a player can earn daily ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/30 "2016-06-05T18:38:14Z")
Not trying to sound rude, but your approach is just more rewards for all, and would change nothing about the actual problems the OP perceives in the ranking system. ---
**Author:** ![Cell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/cell/32/5524_2.png) [@Cell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Cell)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/31 "2016-06-05T19:29:27Z")
@Gouki I get where you’re coming from but the ranks are functioning as intended, playing earns you points, whoever plays nonstop will be at rank one and that’s the way it should be, my position is that the OP probably is more upset that he can have as of now 10k+ PVP points and not get anything beyond the tier rewards, which is the frustration with most, I have what it takes to grind to 10k+ PVP points but refuse to since I can’t gain more then 10-15k and that not even break 10,000th rank it looks, rewarding players for hitting milestones Beyond tier rewards give incentive to grind PVP ---
**Author:** ![mkshandley](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mkshandley/32/3549_2.png) [@mkshandley](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/mkshandley)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/32 "2016-06-05T19:31:03Z")
hmm atleast yesterday 10k points put you about top 100 ---
**Author:** ![Cell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/cell/32/5524_2.png) [@Cell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Cell)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/33 "2016-06-05T19:32:44Z")
@mkshandley I used that number as a refrence point, it may be off ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/34 "2016-06-05T19:44:37Z")
Oh i totally agree that the rankings work the way it is intended, i wasn’t complaining, i just pointed out that the OP was specifically talking about his volatile position in the ranks, and didn’t mention the rewards. As for the reward debate itself, i don’t really see a problem that needs fixing **in my opinion**. Even below rank 1000 we get more stuff than we got before 2.0 for playing pvp battles. Just now that the top1000 get an extra goodie in addition, people feel the need to get a piece of that as well. Your approach would give everyone just another piece of reward including the top1000 who would profit even more from that change. So it doesn’t really accomplish anything, the top1000 will still get extra goodies, and people will still envy them for it and want a part of it. ---
**Author:** ![MarvelKit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/marvelkit/32/7072_2.png) [@MarvelKit](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/MarvelKit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/35 "2016-06-05T21:52:02Z")
Hey guys, thanks very much for all your thoughts on this. I understand completely there is no easy way to make everybody happy with a ranking system. For me at least it feels unfair to make one step forward and two steps back overnight. I have no problem with losing a couple of places while I’m not able to play because of work or sleep. But losing more places than you gained the day before feels unfair to me. ---
**Author:** ![zachraziel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zachraziel/32/3836_2.png) [@zachraziel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/zachraziel)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/36 "2016-06-06T06:20:57Z")
> [@MarvelKit](#): > > I made an effort and got from around 10,500 to 9,500, only to discover that I dropped all the way to 11,750 after I woke up. This way I think I just can’t be bothered to play PVP anymore, except perhaps for the trophies for the guild. Like I said, I have no idea how to solve this. Just some thought. Hey mate, image shown below may help: ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/2/2851438f83480817244f74b76f1e1060865f3c88.png) Honestly, who is going to fight the ‘Rank Two’ player for less gold, less trophies and less PVP points, when you can attack someone 500 levels lower (…and 20,000 ranks lower…) for more gain…? So the solution is simple, set up a really poor defence team like Sister has and no-one will attack you. Leaving your position safe from point loss through invaders. Oh and possibly quit your job 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/37 "2016-06-06T06:28:37Z")
Man, that’s smart. Some people are smart. I feel dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/38 "2016-06-06T06:30:12Z")
@sirrian this screenshot really signposts something up with the PvP system and matchmaking… ---
**Author:** ![GemsCollector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b4bc9f/32.png) [@GemsCollector](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/GemsCollector)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 9:46am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/39 "2016-06-06T09:46:30Z")
> [@zachraziel](#): > > So the solution is simple, set up a really poor defence team like Sister has and no-one will attack you. Leaving your position safe from point loss through invaders. Well, not exactly. It can make you not loose the _points_ due to lost defence battles, but you can loose _ranks_ as well from other players gaining points. And that can be solved only by playing, playing some more and then playing much, much more… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MarvelKit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/marvelkit/32/7072_2.png) [@MarvelKit](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/MarvelKit)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 9:55am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971/40 "2016-06-06T09:55:38Z")
Yes, my ‘problem’ has nothing to do with being attacked. Just losing ranks because others are gaining points. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dropping-ranks-faster-than-climbing-them/7971.md?page=3)