# Dragons Are The New Webspinner!
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223
**Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)
**Created:** [November 8, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223 "2015-11-08T03:03:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@psychetruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/psychetruth)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 6:45am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/21 "2015-11-09T06:45:23Z")
> [@Machiknight](#):
>
> Thats the thing ive been trying to say in this post. You dont HAVE to play the same thing over and over. There are literally tons of builds that can win. If you are playing the same thing over and over, it’s by choice.
That kind of depends how far along in the game and what troops you have. Literally the last card I needed to complete all of them was Webspinner. I use to hate going up against webspinners over and over again when I did not have the card.
The end-game is very different from the middle-game and the beginning-game.
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### Author:  [@psychetruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/psychetruth)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 7:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/22 "2015-11-09T07:00:53Z")
> [@Dorgath](#):
>
> When I control my Goblin team, I’m doing the winning 99% of the time as you mention. When the computer is controlling it via Defends, I’m losing 100% of the time (so far with the tracking wins/loss on). So obviously the player who’s invading me can beat it with whatever team he’s got.
With a four dragon team set on defense, I win 6 about 10 battles from people invading me. So, I guess it’s a better team at least as far how the A.I. plays it.
I think players should be able to win 9 out 10 times and I have no problem with AI, it’s actually quite where it needs to be to make the game fun in my opinion.
I just think it would be fun to have to be picky about which team I used in order to win and have a need to actually use the scout function.
You said, when you use your goblin team. Goblin team is very powerful with team bonuses. I played with some goblin builds for sometime. They are what I am calling a “One Ring” build, because they can rule them all; meaning regardless of what the enemy build is, you can win with a Goblin team 99% of the time.
Try a non-one ring build though and see how often you win when you Invade. Try a build with all common cards or try a build with no legendary cards.
Meaning, while it is true that your brain is the ultimate weapon vs. an inferior I.A., builds do matter.
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### Author:  [@psychetruth](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/psychetruth)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 7:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/23 "2015-11-09T07:03:10Z")
> [@Mariox](#):
>
> Defense team should get the gold the attacker spent to attack instead if just 1 glory, and a trophy. And get it even if attacker retreats or closes game.
Yea, I know what you mean, where does that gold go? Does it disappear into the Iron Bank of Braavos?
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### Author:  [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 7:28am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/24 "2015-11-09T07:28:42Z")
> [@psychetruth](#):
>
> The end-game is very different from the middle-game and the beginning-game
Obvious and tautological.
@Machiknight and @Dorgath are right - and there are many other threads around here that argue similar things - as the AI is fairly poor, and predictable - any strong or balanced team can win 90%+ of the time.
I have 17 different teams set up at the moment. I jump between them regularly - and win 100% of the time with about 12 of them. I have a few ‘experimental’ teams that win say 60% of the time, as they use inefficient builds or unusual spell combos, or make me feel like playing in an unusual way.
A big favourite, for example is my Hydra team - with Hydra + Sunweaver + Herdmaster + Ragnagord - it wins about 50% of the time because of how I play it - I let Hydra get hit to power up its spell, then heal/armour it with Sunweaver - sometimes timing goes wrong, or the enemy gets a lucky skull match and I lose the Hydra - I can sometimes still win with just the three that are left, as the AI can be rubbish, but I will often then lose… but only because I was taking quite extreme risks - if I play it prudently and match the skulls instead of letting the AI have them, I win easily every time. Even against dragons.
Musing on the OP - I can agree there seem some slight balance issues with dragons, and more so with goblins, at the moment. There aren’t many other troop types that could put together a 4x squad that was viable before - you’d have seen 4x goblins teams in the earlier game and it wasn’t a bad strategy. Goblins are bad in particular now because:
- they were already useful cards that were relatively strong for their rarity
- they all have Marauder troop type (except the rocket, thankfully)
- they are all Zaejin
…meaning it’s the only racial combo I can see right now that can build a potent team (e.g. Hobgob/GobShaman/BoarRider/Hobgob) that has gem-spawning, fast damage, extra turns… AND two strong team bonuses bringing +4 Attack and +10 Life. That hobgob on the front has 17 Attack and 41 hit points on my team - better than any legendary…
(worth some playing around to see if something similar can be done with any other kingdom… all divine from Whitehelm maybe?)
The dragons issue is less severe as:
- their spells take longer to charge and don’t guarantee extra turns
- the don’t get a stonking great kingdom bonus as every dragon is from a different kingdom
That said - for the OP - personally I am not seeing dragons or goblins every battle - and when I do see them, I still win (albeit it takes a bit longer getting past those +10 life goblins). Hence - agree some fine-tuning and re-balancing would be good - but disagree that we are in the Webspammer situation of before, where it trashed the meta game and just was tedious to lose to…
I’d suggest partial solution as follows - as I do believe the devs should continually track and tweak for balance, to maintain variety and fun all round:
- minor nerfing to gobbos and possibly to dragons, just a bit of the stats or spell power
- better - create more viable troop sets so that a varied playable team can get stat sets for Divine/Whitehelm, or Wildfolk/Wild Plains, or Fey/Pan’sVale, etc etc
Views from the devs welcome please - @Nimhain @Sirrian ?
Laters.
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### Author:  [@Serale](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Serale)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 8:26am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/25 "2015-11-09T08:26:30Z")
I dont care about gold, having a strong defense team that made enemies from other guild waste more time or even loose the match feels better.
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### Author:  [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 8:40am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/26 "2015-11-09T08:40:08Z")
Not sure how well that works @Serale as they can just fight someone else…
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### Author:  [@Dorgath](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dorgath)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/27 "2015-11-09T14:12:55Z")
> [@psychetruth](#):
>
> With a four dragon team set on defense, I win 6 about 10 battles from people invading me. So, I guess it’s a better team at least as far how the A.I. plays it.[/quote]
>
> Heh. And/or the people invading could be mis-playing? It’s hard to know without seeing a replay of the matches.
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > I just think it would be fun to have to be picky about which team I used in order to win and have a need to actually use the scout function.
>
> Well, from what I remember pre-1.07, others were asking for a Scout function so they could see who they’re facing and adjust their team accordingly. Perhaps they can chime in whether or not they’re actually doing so now?
>
> And some functions of the game will be used or unused by players regardless; witness the calls to make Game Speed an option immediately post-1.07 - if it _was_ implemented, undoubtable some players will use it and some players will not.
>
> [quote]You said, when you use your goblin team. Goblin team is very powerful with team bonuses. I played with some goblin builds for sometime. They are what I am calling a “One Ring” build, because they can rule them all; meaning regardless of what the enemy build is, you can win with a Goblin team 99% of the time.
>
> Try a non-one ring build though and see how often you win when you Invade. Try a build with all common cards or try a build with no legendary cards. [/quote]
>
> Well, the life gain sure was a surprise post 1.07, but I’ve been using it for a while and had much the same success. It’s the extra turns that make it, IMO. I used it as an example of how it does defending and that it does _not_ win 99% of the time, as was implied in your comments that I was replaying to - it’s how the player uses it, it’s not a sweeping 99% win rate no matter what.
>
> My first team was an eclectic one that was all over the place (pre-1.07); Atalanta, Fenris(? the guys who hits the last enemy and drains mana), Hero, and Satyr and that won fairly often, I’d say in the 90% range. At this point in the game though, I don’t feel comfortable invading and experimenting with troops who aren’t level 15 and so while slowly gaining enough souls to level, I’m sticking with the “tried and true”. Also don’t have a lot of time to play, so having an efficient team works better right now.
>
> [quote]Meaning, while it is true that your brain is the ultimate weapon vs. an inferior I.A., builds do matter.
Kind of true, but I think someone said it in another thread, I like how you _don’t_ need legendaries to compete - rares and other cards in a team can still take down an “All-legendary” team if played right.
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### Author:  [@CSZ](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/CSZ)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/28 "2015-11-09T14:42:15Z")
> [@psychetruth](#):
>
> Try a build with all common cards or try a build with no legendary cards.
I’ve never used any Legendary Troop for more than 5 matches. I rather spend more time building teams around ultras oder Epics and I still win 90% of the time.
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### Author:  [@Serale](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Serale)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/29 "2015-11-09T15:40:28Z")
But they fight me. 😄
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### Author:  [@HeimdallUlf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HeimdallUlf)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/30 "2015-11-09T15:45:15Z")
> [@Serale](#):
>
> I dont care about gold, having a strong defense team that made enemies from other guild waste more time or even loose the match feels better.
But you still want to lose the match so that while they spent 200-500 gold to get a trophy, you only had to spend 50. You should care about gold, though. Level 10 kingdoms mean more life/armor your opponents have to grind through, costing them time. If all of your kingdoms are maxed out then extra gold means more guild tasks done to help out all of your allies.
If you really want to just waste invaders time, you want a high life/defense team that has a low chance of winning and can spam heal itself. Some combination of Celestasia, Sunweaver, Flesh Golem, Dryad, Emperina, Hero w/Bullroarer/Sands of Time, etc. Maybe even a summoner thrown in there ass well, you get the idea.
I’m guessing that all of this will change once the guild patch is done and there are actual guild attacks or whatever. We will finally have a reason to want to win on defense!
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### Author:  [@Serale](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Serale)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/31 "2015-11-09T15:48:56Z")
I’ve everything maxed and I do have a comp like that for defense with double goblin king and such. 😄
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### Author:  [@Dorgath](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dorgath)
#### Post date: [November 9, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/32 "2015-11-09T20:36:05Z")
> [@psychetruth](#):
>
> Try a build with all common cards
Well, someone from the Steam forums a couple of days ago was complaining about (a call to nerf!) and I just faced it on Revenge: an all Rock Wurm team. Won with my gobbos one turn away (probably) from defeat (his last Wurm was charged up and ready to go and I had two guys at 6 and 4 life). That was actually pretty exciting and tense… 😄
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### Author:  [@SLAYAH](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/SLAYAH)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/33 "2016-08-28T22:57:57Z")
This is probably and old thread but DEATH is the answer to basically any strong team of attack. Doesn’t have to do much damage to kill the WHOLE team. I’ve seen it and it ain’t pretty for the AI. lol
I so much wish we could play each other for real so many of you could see how worthless many of your builds are. Playing the AI is a piece of cake and if you are losing to the AI then you ain’t very good. :))
NOTE: (Not talking about the early game everyone loses in the early game but by the time you get to late game you shouldn’t be losing to the AI evah 🙂 )
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### Author:  [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/34 "2016-08-28T23:05:20Z")
> [@SLAYAH](#):
>
> This is probably and old thread
“9 months later”
👴
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### Author:  [@schralenbef1](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/schralenbef1)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/35 "2016-08-28T23:12:55Z")
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### Author:  [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/36 "2016-08-28T23:48:49Z")
> [@TaliaParks](#):
>
> “9 months later”
Well, if it got pregnant back then, it’s due for some offspring.
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### Author:  [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/37 "2016-08-28T23:57:49Z")
> [@Lyya](#):
>
> Well, if it got pregnant back then, it’s due for some offspring.
So… Kruarg Is The New Great Maw! ?
Since you brought up offspring 😉
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### Author:  [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/38 "2016-08-29T00:00:09Z")
The procreation process of the Great Maw isn’t high on my must-learn list.
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### Author:  [@TaliaParks](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TaliaParks)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dragons-are-the-new-webspinner/1223/39 "2016-08-29T00:03:02Z")
Better learn before you triple-Devoured
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