# Do you agree with the change to the Sunspear class? **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [March 11, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877 "2020-03-11T01:58:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![igniteice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/igniteice/32/67904_2.png) [@igniteice](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/igniteice)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/42 "2020-03-11T19:15:07Z")
> [@Arg](#): > > I’m being specific to this issue and the current trend of people asking for the change to be reverted. This isn’t a catch all phrase for every issue. I was agreeing with you… ---
**Author:** ![Sossitch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sossitch/32/60933_2.png) [@Sossitch](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sossitch)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/43 "2020-03-11T19:42:12Z")
Perhaps if Steve required his staff to grind out the 2500-5000 battles required to level a class to 100, the hundreds of dungeons to craft a mythic, and the countless explore battles to fully medal that mythic, they would be less flippant when making changes like this. ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMono](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/chunkymono/32/69308_2.png) [@ChunkyMono](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ChunkyMono)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/44 "2020-03-11T21:46:56Z")
Is there a way to post the poll on their Live Stream and other social media accounts? We are only gathering information from the players who visit the actual, official forum pages. It is no wonder our requests for Faction Team changes, Watery and Carved Doom Weapon upgrades, and “No Dead Guilds in top Brackets” requests go unheard. (Okay, that last one I was the only one in favor of). But still… We think we are making reasonable requests, but in reality, the majority of players don’t visit these forums, but instead voice their opinions during the streams and on other media. “I feel some of their numbers might be inaccurate”. But I am in the minority, despite being in the +95%. ---
**Author:** ![Chalky123](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/chalky123/32/51341_2.png) [@Chalky123](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Chalky123)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/45 "2020-03-11T22:23:17Z")
Did the title get changed or something? A large percent “agree” to the change… ---
**Author:** ![igniteice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/igniteice/32/67904_2.png) [@igniteice](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/igniteice)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/46 "2020-03-11T23:08:12Z")
The title asks “Do you agree with the change?” and 95% responded “No” ---
**Author:** ![Earnham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/earnham/32/63013_2.png) [@Earnham](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Earnham)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/47 "2020-03-12T00:00:19Z")
So they wanted to make it worse on attack, but even better on defense? Kind of funny to me. I rarely used it on offense to begin with, but when its needed I definately use it. ---
**Author:** ![Arg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5daacb/32.png) [@Arg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Arg)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/48 "2020-03-12T00:13:03Z")
Ya, I just went back and reread it. Was a long day at work today lol. ---
**Author:** ![Sublime\_Eimar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sublime\_Eimar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sublime_Eimar)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/49 "2020-03-12T00:33:05Z")
I am far more bothered by how the change was communicated, than I am by the change itself. Do I think the change was necessary? No. The way it was explained in the patch notes was disingenuous, pretending that the trait and the talent were identical. I really don’t like being made to feel that I’ve been lied to by the devs. And the statement about the change seems too crafted to be an innocent misstatement on their parts. ---
**Author:** ![Thevc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a8b319/32.png) [@Thevc](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thevc)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/50 "2020-03-12T00:51:04Z")
Let’s not overlook that the new heatwave trait (+2 mana on red) looks remarkably similar to the lvl 70 tree perk “firebringer” which gives bonus mana on red. The official pinnochio party line is/was that the trait 3 permastorm and the firestorm at the start of battle were practically the same thing (only an idiot would not be able to distinguish that they are most definitely not). But the “solution” leaves the trait 2/tree 5 option (identical) in situ and THEN adds a third trait which is far more similar to a pre existing tree perk than the so-called “original conflict” ever was. That’s how rushed this was and be absolutely clear that you, I and everybody else is being lied to yet again regarding the true motive. I am still waiting for the links and screenshots of the complaints about sunspear but suddenly the devs are nowhere to be seen. Speaks volumes don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/51 "2020-03-12T02:06:42Z")
Firebringer and new Heatwave are added so you get +3 so it’s fine. Firestarter was strictly useless compared to old Heatwave. ---
**Author:** ![igniteice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/igniteice/32/67904_2.png) [@igniteice](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/igniteice)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/52 "2020-03-12T02:26:28Z")
> [@turintuor](#): > > Firebringer and new Heatwave are added so you get +3 so it’s fine. > Firestarter was strictly useless compared to old Heatwave. So traits that are strictly useless compared to a hero’s talents should be fixed? ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/8/7/8735b63355c340af7899f11a4c71bda0e02753c5.jpeg) ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/6/4/642fd0fe4c7158f3487cba79518145f26b2a2b99.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/53 "2020-03-12T02:37:29Z")
I was answering about the specific Firebringer/new Heatwave. I totally agree with you for this trait is completely useless 😉 . But as said elsewhere, my guess is that Heatwave has been modified because of the too powerful synergy between old Heatwave and Phoenica. And as devs cannot come here with this argument, they prefer to use a minor request (apparently some players voiced about Firebringer being useless). They could have modify Fireproof at the same time 🙄. ---
**Author:** ![Lorien1973](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lorien1973/32/75546_2.png) [@Lorien1973](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lorien1973)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:41am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/54 "2020-03-12T02:41:01Z")
I hadn’t used sunspear in a month but hate the change to the class… as if I needed a red team, it was the choice. Now there is none. ---
**Author:** ![Arg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5daacb/32.png) [@Arg](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Arg)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/55 "2020-03-12T04:43:12Z")
This is all speculation. It doesn’t make sense to nerf a class because 1 troop was too powerful. They could just nerf the troop and there would have been much less outcry. Edit - Speculation - If it’s true that Phoencia was too powerful, the troop should be addressed and not the class. They could have looked at the damage, synergy that relies on storm, many multiple ways to address that issue with the troop itself. Instead they took a sledgehammer to the game and its player base, instead of implementing a well thought troop design change. ---
**Author:** ![AMT](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/amt/32/56829_2.png) [@AMT](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/AMT)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:21am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/56 "2020-03-12T06:21:34Z")
They seem to be reverting the change: > [@Sunspear Changes](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949): > > As you all are very aware, we made a change to the Sunspear Hero Class. We also know that not everyone liked this change. That’s normal - it’s the nature of game development that some changes and new features won’t appeal to everyone equally. For context, when we were first made aware of potential issues between the Heatwave trait and the Firestarter Talent, we looked at potential fixes with the least impact. This is why Heatwave was changed instead of Firestarter, as Firestarter is in the Fir… > [@Sunspear Changes](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/1): > > when we were first made aware of potential issues between the Heatwave trait and the Firestarter Talent, we looked at potential fixes with the least impact It is now up to the playerbase to believe/forgive/forget the Devs’ actions. 🖖 ---
**Author:** ![FREDDY](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/freddy/32/63726_2.png) [@FREDDY](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/FREDDY)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/57 "2020-03-12T06:31:01Z")
unforgiven -what else is there to say ---
**Author:** ![AMT](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/amt/32/56829_2.png) [@AMT](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/AMT)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/58 "2020-03-12T06:43:58Z")
Regrettably, seeing the periodicity of these incidents, that may not be the main takeaway for most. 😅 🖖 > [@Sunspear Changes](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/1): > > We were confused, as we felt the new trait was of equal value. > [@Sunspear Changes](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/1): > > we just weren’t familiar with this particular team. So many elements worth remembering though 🙄 And current evidenced percentages are 95% did not find the change appealing: surely illustrative of how in touch this developer is with the playerbase. > [@Sunspear Changes](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/sunspear-changes/61949/1): > > it’s the nature of game development that some changes and new features won’t appeal to everyone equally So worth reiterating: > [@AMT](#): > > They deliberately kept quiet about this nerf to one of the few usable classes until the update dropped: they knew what they were doing to the playerbase. 🖖 ---
**Author:** ![awryan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/awryan/32/74650_2.png) [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/59 "2020-03-12T06:52:08Z")
I’m all for conspiracy theories. But the idea that they kept quiet about the change. Just so they could go back and recode it again less than 24 hours later. Is Idiocracy at it’s finest. They honestly thought they were doing something good. They were wrong. They are fixing it. Accept that they are fixing it. Move on. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![AMT](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/amt/32/56829_2.png) [@AMT](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/AMT)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 6:58am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/60 "2020-03-12T06:58:39Z")
> [@awryan](#): > > They honestly thought they were doing something good If they did (agree to disagree, unless things like the Explore GUI are also them trying to do something good 😛) that would be highly illustrative of how much they know about GoW gameplay. Either way, worth remembering. 😊 🙏 🖖 ---
**Author:** ![awryan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/awryan/32/74650_2.png) [@awryan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/awryan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 7:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877/61 "2020-03-12T07:03:22Z")
> [@AMT](#): > > If they did (agree to disagree, unless things like the Explore GUI are also them trying to do something good 😛) that would be highly illustrative of how much they know about GoW gameplay. > > Either way, worth remembering. > 😊 🙏 🖖 The biggest difference between Sunspear change and the GUI is… The devs are aware of what players want for the most part. But can’t just change the game all the time based on opinions. But in this case they thought they were giving players something that they wanted. A buff in fact. And were shock to hear people thought it was a nerf. So in the case where they thought they were providing a buff. They were happy to “nerf” the buff back to the original settings. 🤷‍♂️ [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877.md?page=2) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-you-agree-with-the-change-to-the-sunspear-class/61877.md?page=4)