# Do anyone else miss the 4 gem match mana surges? **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [October 8, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289 "2017-10-08T01:05:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jeno](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jeno/32/20235_2.png) [@jeno](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jeno)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/21 "2017-10-08T15:30:18Z")
i miss it a little bit. but at least now i have a little bit more choices for invade. i don’t miss famine getting full right after i drain it though, twice in a row. i miss how fast the match ends. ---
**Author:** ![Strat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Strat](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Strat)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/22 "2017-10-08T15:32:40Z")
> [@Delinquent](#): > > a slower game benefits a smarter player more Then why was almost every PC player complaining their W/L was actually lower? What are you saying about their intelligence if they can’t out smart a faster more ‘dangerous’ AI consistently? They need it to be slower to fill Mana to ensue their win rate? Just saying there are a few old time console players that have been playing against AI with the surge for years with win rates above 95%+. On an similar note I am dreading PC players getting console daily tasks. I can almost be certain they will get another Nerf in some fashion as well. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/23 "2017-10-08T15:33:07Z")
> [@Drathas](#): > > Simple answer: > > No SImple answers are often the best… 😉 I also definately don’t miss the 4-gem match mana surges… ---
**Author:** ![Santandrix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/santandrix/32/68758_2.png) [@Santandrix](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Santandrix)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/24 "2017-10-08T17:05:56Z")
I finally pulled off a 30 and 0 guild wars bracket one after weeks of losing 1, I think the ai has changed drastically in the last couple weeks and I do like it a lot more now, sure troops take longer to fill with no surges at 4, but I can handle it. We should just drop it now so no more changes occur. I think this is the best ai so far. I can live without the surges at 4. ---
**Author:** ![Lyya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lyya/32/3650_2.png) [@Lyya](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyya)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/25 "2017-10-08T17:21:52Z")
> [@Santandrix](#): > > I think the ai has changed drastically in the last couple weeks I think it’s just the Surge-on-4 mechanic that has changed. Regardless, I agree that things are in a better place. > [@Was something tweaked again?](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/was-something-tweaked-again/30963/11): > > We haven’t changed any of the AI or RNG since moving to Unity. slight_smile ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/26 "2017-10-08T23:07:56Z")
> [@Strat](#): > > \*“In reality”: it probably caused issues with the financial bottom line, by allowing for faster play. No, and I’m not sure why they keep scapegoating gold gain as directly affecting rewards in official posts, so I can see why people would think this. The entire reward structure of the game has _multiple_ diminishing rewards points specifically to insulate against increases fluctuations in gold rewards from wrecking their economy. > [@Slypenslyde](#): > > Introduce troops with traits that trigger when the opponent takes extra turns and cause you to gain an overwhelming advantage if they loop several times. > Cap the number of free turns one can get per turn. I have to say no to this specifically. Looping is not the problem, and the most effective loops (the ones the AI uses, and the ones that people complain about) use the fewest amount of actions. Capping off actions or defensive traits that work off the enemy getting turns that would actually impact these teams effectively removes chaining spells as a strategy, which removes the entire identity of Gems of War. What you would be doing here is guiding people toward exploders and mass spawners, along with powerful, huge impact troops, and they don’t need any help. I’ll agree that we need to hard incentivize variety. The event system attempts to do this with stat changes, but its the reward structure that needs to be addressed. But again, we need to also make sure that people are putting up stuff that they believe actually _can_ be threatening and incentiveize that as well, or we will end up with a stale experience in the other direction. Back to match 4 surges, I’ll also agree that it isn’t impacting the teams I’ve been using or seeing on defense a while lot. I will see some instances where I can’t keep chaining, but in at least some of those instances, mana is conveniently already set up on the board for me to take with an extra turn. I also get a few less “free wins” (eg., match 4 red set up for valk would fill her completely with a +2 red banner, and match 5s set up at the start are much rarer). I don’t generally use teams with a “start” condition of more than two mana matches (with one surge) because they usually feel unviably slow to gain control when facing off against troops that gain control with one non-surge. By itself, the change is a half-measure, which I don’t like, but it was immediately followed with a statement that the other issues are still being looked at. The most important thing at this point is that we address the issues then **keep things consistent** going forward. If they changed match 4 surges _again_, it would be beyond frustrating, and it just sends the message that they really don’t know how they want exchanges in their game to play out. What I’m hoping is for a speedy resolution for _all_ of the Unity related changes, one way or the other, even if it means keeping the ones I don’t specifically agree with. I’d _perfer_ the game to be paced and able to be played a certain way, of course, but the longer it is not addressed, the more potential it has to be divisive. (Sorry, tried to keep it short, but these are usually stream of consciousness and then I go back and prune them later) ---
**Author:** ![Supremesis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/supremesis/32/24521_2.png) [@Supremesis](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Supremesis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/27 "2017-10-08T23:13:14Z")
In my eyes it should just be that every match is chance based mana surges which as we all should know is based off our mana masteries %, its quite silly to have been removed really but none the less just deal with it I guess 😕 in answer Im not exactly bothered about the 4 match mana surge leaving. ---
**Author:** ![Maxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/maxx/32/50891_2.png) [@Maxx](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Maxx)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/28 "2017-10-09T04:22:46Z")
I don’t miss it at all in pvp but I do miss it in arena. ---
**Author:** ![Annaerith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/annaerith/32/13840_2.png) [@Annaerith](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Annaerith)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/29 "2017-10-09T13:21:18Z")
i come from pc/mobile so nope, i dont miss them at all i was one of the ppl who never wanted the surges happen on 4matches to begin with ---
**Author:** ![Svaldan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/svaldan/32/29159_2.png) [@Svaldan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Svaldan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/30 "2017-10-09T13:37:10Z")
I’m relieved they removed it again, I feel the extra turn in 4 gem matches is enough reward. Surging _and_ keeping the turn makes for feel bad moments when you’re on the receiving end. I’m not saying this is the only thing that needed fixing, but I’m really glad they did at least revert to not surging on 4 gem matches. ---
**Author:** ![Calv1n](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/calv1n/32/28721_2.png) [@Calv1n](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Calv1n)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/31 "2017-10-09T22:54:37Z")
I’m glad they removed it - it however hasn’t “fixed” the issues for the majority of teams it was effecting it just has slowed them down a bit. Justice league can still smash your team with out getting another turn but instead of turn 2 or 3 it’s now 4 or 5 however once they get rolling you’re still as screwed as you were with the 4 surges (same with the other meta teams, wisps, Kraken + troll etc) Cheers ---
**Author:** ![Kurokazna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kurokazna/32/11246_2.png) [@Kurokazna](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kurokazna)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289/32 "2017-10-09T23:39:17Z")
Not in the slightest. Glad they’re gone! [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/do-anyone-else-miss-the-4-gem-match-mana-surges/31289.md?page=1)