# Dawnbringer unbalances Arena **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [September 16, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338 "2017-09-16T03:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Lardy-Porker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lardy-porker/32/25588_2.png) [@Lardy-Porker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lardy-Porker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/586 "2018-02-18T21:55:01Z")
> [@vanyel](#): > > Seems hypocritical considering all the people not letting it go on the other side of the fence for months now…Perhaps everyone else who has made their opinions clear time and time again should also move on, not just @Lardy-Porker? Thank you for this! 🤗 I actually do think that @MadOrange has a point-- I really don’t _ **care** _ that much whether DB stays in Arena or not, but I’ve become very reactive about all the “nerf this, change that” complaints on these boards. I’ve participated in some of this myself-- if you go back and read my comments from the time the new UI was being (ham-handedly) rolled out, some of them are absurdly bitter and accusatory. So maybe I’m trying to atone for those errors in my own judgement… Mostly it comes down to the fact that since I’ve posted in this thread, I get notified when there are new posts. I read them, and then it’s… ![duty_calls](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/3/a/3ad9b5ce2f77ae8a6fb55c24725dcf1f3b66e9fa.png) I’ll try to pipe down now and leave everyone here to complain in peace! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![MadOrange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/madorange/32/23351_2.png) [@MadOrange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/MadOrange)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/587 "2018-02-18T23:52:10Z")
Lol, you little picture is epic 👍 ---
**Author:** ![vanyel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vanyel/32/32071_2.png) [@vanyel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/vanyel)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/588 "2018-02-18T23:56:58Z")
> [@MadOrange](#): > > Lol, you little picture is epic 👍 I know, right?! I can’t say I haven’t fallen victim to doing that and clearly this forum is rife with it. The pitfall for people passionate about something. I just want to repost it in nearly every thread on here… ---
**Author:** ![pkayos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/pkayos/32/8269_2.png) [@pkayos](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/pkayos)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:44am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/589 "2018-02-19T10:44:12Z")
> [@Lardy-Porker](#): > > I’m not sure what it ultimately proves though-- are you saying that DB is so OP that you can’t even beat it w another DB? No, he’s saying above you replied to this: > [@](#): > > A weapon that will kill 2/3 troops and barrier all team mates isn’t OP? with this reply: > [@](#): > > “I guess such a weapon might be OP, but that’s not the DawnBringer I’ve faced. In my experience DB rarely kills any of my troops on its first use” And that’s simply not the case for 90% of the time I face Dawnbringer and that image shows the typical result of the first cast. The outcome is he kills 2-3 troops with the first cast every time, and PLUS barriers the entire enemy team. No other weapon in Arena does this, and no other weapon even comes close, which is why Dawnbringer is unbalanced to a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/590 "2018-02-19T17:26:40Z")
Yeah, I let my response get out of hand and a little too personal. In both my forum posts and Discord I really need to think a little bit more about what I say. I think the following are true: - If one weapon represents such an advantage that 30% of the team pool is using it, that weapon is overpowered. - If one weapon represents an almost 10% effect on your observed win rate, that weapon _may be_ overpowered. Both of these could be tempered by more data. For example: - If we found out that the top 5 weapons have ~30%, ~25%, ~20%, ~10% distribution, then the 30% by itself is not quite as alarming. This is “there are a few weapons that are much more powerful than the rest” and that’s a more complex problem. - If we figured out the top 5 weapons all have more or less a 10% impact on win rate, again that suggests “in line with the next-most-powerful weapons” and the situation gets more complex. But there are a lot of other things at play too, and we’ve been over them. I think “pure” data would mean you don’t ever get to push the “retire” button, and should involve keeping track of win-loss records vs. every weapon. If someone wants to do that kind of record taking they can feel free, but it sounds boring and slow to me and the devs are in a better position to provide that data. I’m a data nerd and I’d love to see a kind of live ranking like that, but it’s a big feature for little gain. (But I’d pay for access to it 😛) Everyone’s experience in the game is different. I’ve tried a handful of suggestions for vs. Dawnbringer and so far Runic Blade’s still my most successful strategy. Summer’s Fury is still quite expensive in terms of mana, and if I don’t get a team that helps me fill red I find the match goes roughly like when I can’t manipulate a good Runic Blade hit. The presence of Dawnbringer completely changes how I pick troops and has widened the window of what teams I consider unlikely to make it all 8 wins. That alone bothers me. I still stand by the same assessments as before: Runic Blade is _hard_ to beat with lesser teams, but Dawnbringer eliminates so many teams as to make my expected Arena returns in both rewards and “fun” too low. ---
**Author:** ![Lardy-Porker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lardy-porker/32/25588_2.png) [@Lardy-Porker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lardy-Porker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/591 "2018-02-19T21:38:31Z")
> [@Slypenslyde](#): > > If one weapon represents such an advantage that 30% of the team pool is using it, that weapon is overpowered. Very good points throughout, but I wanted to address this one comment… I wish I had broken out all opponent weapons, it would have been interesting to see the result. But I didn’t, and not likely to devote the effort in the future. I will say that my _impression_ is that Runic Blade is _at least_ as common as DB in Arena. Here’s a chart of weapons seen in Arena-- based not on hard data but on my anecdotal “impressions”, so take it for what it’s worth: DawnBringer **30%** Runic Blade **30%** Crude Club **10%** Mang **10%** Prismatic Orb **10%** All others **10%** ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/592 "2018-02-19T23:08:44Z")
Not commenting on the powerlevel of Dawnbringer which clearly is strong af(but also very manaintense and deniable), but I don’t think representation is a good way to look at it. Right before Dawnbringer existed, Runic Blade was massively overrepresented, i’d say easily 50%(probably even more) of enemy teams had it. That doesn’t mean it was overpowered though, as a matter of fact i personally wouldn’t even have put it in my top3 arena weapons at that time. It just got hyped on these very forums and people are lazy and tend to pick whatever is called out as being strong in forum discussions. Incidentally that is what will happen if Dawnbringer gets taken out of Arena btw. Instead of 30% Dawnbringer we will be back to 50+% Runic Blade, not that i would mind either way, just saying people will always flock to whatever gets called out as the “best” on here. ---
**Author:** ![Smuggler007](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/smuggler007/32/5320_2.png) [@Smuggler007](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Smuggler007)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/593 "2018-02-20T13:59:43Z")
Like its been said, Arena is outdated. Hell, its gone the way of the dinosaurs. The devs need to overhaul that game mode much like they’ve done with everything else. The bandaid solutions aren’t the way to go. I’m sure that as long as there is money to be made and/or continues to be made, the publisher will give them the green light. ---
**Author:** ![pkayos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/pkayos/32/8269_2.png) [@pkayos](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/pkayos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/594 "2018-02-21T03:51:41Z")
> [@Gouki](#): > > Not commenting on the powerlevel of Dawnbringer which clearly is strong af(but also very manaintense and deniable), but I don’t think representation is a good way to look at it. > > Right before Dawnbringer existed, Runic Blade was massively overrepresented, i’d say easily 50%(probably even more) of enemy teams had it. That doesn’t mean it was overpowered though, as a matter of fact i personally wouldn’t even have put it in my top3 arena weapons at that time. It just got hyped on these very forums and people are lazy and tend to pick whatever is called out as being strong in forum discussions. > Incidentally that is what will happen if Dawnbringer gets taken out of Arena btw. Instead of 30% Dawnbringer we will be back to 50+% Runic Blade, not that i would mind either way, just saying people will always flock to whatever gets called out as the “best” on here. I agree, Runic Blade was overrepresented but I don’t think it was overpowered. 1 cast on practically any full health enemy would 90% of the time not even kill 1 enemy, whereas Dawnbringer on 1 cast usually kills 3 of my troops (or if it kills 2 brings the other down to 1-2 HP). I think just from a balance standpoint where we can’t have access to any other mythics where 1 cast could wipe out or nearly wipe out a whole team (not to mention barrier), I don’t think we should have access to Dawnbringer either. Not that its unbeatable or unblockable, but as the topic says, it’s pretty unbalanced ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 4:55am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/595 "2018-02-22T04:55:48Z")
They fixed it! Now Runic Blade doesn’t boost your player stats. ---
**Author:** ![Maxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/maxx/32/50891_2.png) [@Maxx](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Maxx)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 8:42am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/596 "2018-02-23T08:42:01Z")
Too many Gnomes hours later they have been removed. 600 replys thread on Dawnbringer in Arena 5 months later still nothings been done. ---
**Author:** ![en9nhcet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/en9nhcet/32/1673_2.png) [@en9nhcet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/en9nhcet)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:10am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/597 "2018-02-23T09:10:51Z")
yea…but gnomes are back…xD they should remove db and let it back into arena again a day later say it was an accident bhaha ---
**Author:** ![Taliesin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@Taliesin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Taliesin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/598 "2018-02-26T04:37:22Z")
Db is altogether to powerful whether used in arena or defense. It desperately needs a nerf. ---
**Author:** ![MadOrange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/madorange/32/23351_2.png) [@MadOrange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/MadOrange)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/599 "2018-02-26T16:21:37Z")
I wouldnt worry about it any more… The new game modes are a total cash cow and there will be no players left soon. Too many nerfs and not enough action. ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/600 "2018-03-11T14:15:58Z")
🎵 🎵 Reminder this thread is 6 months old and the devs don’t give a flip most people feel like an entire game mode is broken by a single piece of endgame player swag. 🎵 🎵 ---
**Author:** ![Thunder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thunder/32/39233_2.png) [@Thunder](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thunder)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/601 "2018-03-11T18:37:41Z")
Runic blade ---
**Author:** ![AngryMidget](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/angrymidget/32/10478_2.png) [@AngryMidget](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/AngryMidget)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/602 "2018-03-11T18:38:28Z")
What about it? ---
**Author:** ![Thunder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thunder/32/39233_2.png) [@Thunder](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thunder)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/603 "2018-03-11T18:39:42Z")
Use it and on normal its not a wipe ---
**Author:** ![AngryMidget](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/angrymidget/32/10478_2.png) [@AngryMidget](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/AngryMidget)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/604 "2018-03-11T18:47:53Z")
This has been discussed to death further up, I’m not doing it again 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Thunder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thunder/32/39233_2.png) [@Thunder](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thunder)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/605 "2018-03-11T19:12:05Z")
Lol i saw that post s six months old srry lol [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338.md?page=29) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338.md?page=31)