# Dawnbringer unbalances Arena **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [September 16, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338 "2017-09-16T03:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/566 "2018-02-17T14:22:23Z")
> [@Lardy-Porker](#): > > That’s not a very difficult coding problem! They don’t want to fix DB because it’s not broken… The devs have already stated that they do see it as a problem in at least two different Twitch streams. In those streams, they said they are looking for a long term solution. ---
**Author:** ![AngryMidget](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/angrymidget/32/10478_2.png) [@AngryMidget](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/AngryMidget)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/567 "2018-02-17T14:27:19Z")
> [@Lardy-Porker](#): > > I guess such a weapon might be OP, but that’s not the DawnBringer I’ve faced. I wish I could face your Dawnbringer 😅 > [@Lardy-Porker](#): > > The Barrier is annoying, but as discussed weeks ago in this thread, that’s why I favor Summer’s Fury for a weapon-- it strikes ALL opponents, removing any Barriers. Then if you’re lucky it refills itself to do real damage. I appreciate that there’s ways to remove barrier, it’s the fact you need to get enough mana to cast things twice. In that time Dawnbringer casts again. I’m glad Summer’s Fury works for you, truly. Personally I do not use anything that creates x number of gems because all that achieves is giving the AI masses of mana. In my guild’s Discord there’s something everyone refers to as ‘The Team’ and most use it. I’m the exception because it has a troop which just wouldn’t work for me due to random gem creation. > [@Lardy-Porker](#): > > They don’t want to fix DB because it’s not broken… If they don’t want to remove it or attempt to fix the problem everyone’s imagining then all they’d need to do is pop in here, say categorically that they’re not touching Arena. Then all of us that have contributed to this thread can scratch Arena off and forget it even exists, as many have done with Treasure Hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Maxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/maxx/32/50891_2.png) [@Maxx](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Maxx)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/568 "2018-02-17T15:23:08Z")
> [@Lardy-Porker](#): > > DAWNBRINGER IS NOT OP Yeah this is a perfectly balanced weapon ![20180120200115_1](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/2/6/26938fd40ebeafce45962366650bfe500979ca19.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![TimeKnight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/timeknight/32/50221_2.png) [@TimeKnight](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TimeKnight)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/569 "2018-02-17T17:10:10Z")
Just want to add my thought here. Dawnbringer is definitely a problem in Arena. Arena is an even playing field for people of all level, so there are only Common/Rare/Ultra-rare cards available. When adding hero, a balance is shift a bit for additional stats gained from leveling, but it’s fixed by limiting low level player to not facing enemies with higher level. Now for the weapon issue, there are rarities of them as well, but somehow they’re not limited, with Epic/Legandary/Mythic available to choose. But balance is still kinda okay there, consider the higher their tier, the harder they are to fill and cast. They are still 2-color cards, so they’re not much of a problem. But when 3-color weapon enter the pool, the balance is destoryed. How often do you get a 4,5 match? For other weapon, the odds is 1x or 2x, because only one or two colors can fill them. But for Dawnbringer, it’s 3x, or half of all colors. So even its mana cost is higher, it got more chance of choosing color that would fill itself. Now adding that it’s also do heavy AoE, create barriers, in a mode that opponent can’t even choose appopriate counters, all effort have to be focus on beating one single weapon, which isn’t not what an Arena should be. So for me, a solution is to limit any 3-color card to enter Arena. No matter what the next Mythic weapons’ spell will be, if they manage to enter Arena, the problem will happen all over again. ---
**Author:** ![Lardy-Porker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lardy-porker/32/25588_2.png) [@Lardy-Porker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lardy-Porker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/570 "2018-02-17T21:33:13Z")
You appear to be showing DB being used by the player, not the AI. But no one is complaining about that! 🧐 ---
**Author:** ![Lardy-Porker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lardy-porker/32/25588_2.png) [@Lardy-Porker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lardy-Porker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/571 "2018-02-17T21:42:35Z")
> [@AngryMidget](#): > > If they don’t want to remove it or attempt to fix the problem everyone’s imagining then all they’d need to do is pop in here, say categorically that they’re not touching Arena. I imagine that the devs don’t want to annoy dozens of dedicated players by telling them straight out that they’re a bunch of whiny crybabies (that’s what I’m here for! 😉 ). Actions (or lack thereof) speak louder than words. The idea that limiting the incidence of DB in Arena is some kind of difficult programming exploit doesn’t pass the smell test. Take the hint, learn to live w DB. It IS beatable. From my post a month ago: Overall Arena win rate: **93.9%** vs. non-DB weapons: **96.6%** wins vs. DawnBringer: **87.5%** Arena matches involving DB: **29.3%** Challenging? Yes. Game-destroying? NO! ---
**Author:** ![mld-81](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mld-81/32/63170_2.png) [@mld-81](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/mld-81)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/572 "2018-02-17T21:45:36Z")
![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/9/f/9f25e6d116955de2f37ce092953f1646b80f1f7f.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![TimeKnight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/timeknight/32/50221_2.png) [@TimeKnight](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TimeKnight)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/573 "2018-02-17T23:38:35Z")
Who is saying Dawnbringer is impossible to defeat? The point of this whole post is “unbalance” not “unbeatable”. If you look back before DB is a thing, battles in Arena is so different back then. Challenging and fratuating is a different thing. If people feel like Arena on normal difficulty is too easy, they can just choosing harder difficultly for more reward. DW is too much even in normal. Back then, when you got a nice deck and play more carefully, you could even win on Warlord IV. Are you sure you can use your Summer Fury to beat DW in that difficultly? Here’s a few more things I would like to point out… - No spell should only able to cast once and win. Without lucky looping AoE, it’s hard to recover if you don’t have dispel the whole enemies team spell like Wisp’s. - Mythic front is too fast to cast. Normally, to deal with it in PvP, you can use; heavy attack front/silence/web/mana drain/sniper troops. Most of them is not available to player in Arena due to randomly selected troop pools. - Why is players being punished for using yellow troops? AoE boosted by color shouldn’t be a thing in Arena. Arena is a very outdated mode at the moment, with stun effect having no point whatsoever. Mythic weapon is clearly not design well to be an opponent here. Maybe the whole mode need some major overhaul, or just leave it alone collecting dust. There are many better modes now with even more coming. ---
**Author:** ![MadOrange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/madorange/32/23351_2.png) [@MadOrange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/MadOrange)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/574 "2018-02-18T01:47:33Z")
Sorry i advance, but i fail to see why you keep posting in this thread? You have made it clear that you do not agree with most of the posts here. You love DB and do not see a problem. I feel you are now posting to stir up shit tbh. Thank you for your input and move on? ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 2:01am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/575 "2018-02-18T02:01:01Z")
So it’s _only_ 30% of your total opponents, and brings your win rate down 9% more than all of the other weapons combined? You’re sort of writing the “dramatic power chasm” story with your statistics. What’s the next-closest weapon in % to Dawnbringer? ---
**Author:** ![Ashasekayi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ashasekayi/32/61090_2.png) [@Ashasekayi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Ashasekayi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/576 "2018-02-18T02:21:33Z")
After DB, I usually see runic blade the most. ---
**Author:** ![vanyel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vanyel/32/32071_2.png) [@vanyel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/vanyel)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/577 "2018-02-18T03:02:04Z")
> [@MadOrange](#): > > You have made it clear that you do not agree with most of the posts here…Thank you for your input and move on? Seems hypocritical considering all the people not letting it go on the other side of the fence for months now…Perhaps everyone else who has made their opinions clear time and time again should also move on, not just @Lardy-Porker? I forgot the devs are ignoring this thread anyway so none of it matters. But I guess we still can’t have a dissenter or an opposing viewpoint with statistical data or suggestions on how to alleviate one’s arena grief among us. Those things have no place in a thread like this I guess. ---
**Author:** ![MadOrange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/madorange/32/23351_2.png) [@MadOrange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/MadOrange)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 3:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/578 "2018-02-18T03:15:24Z")
Agreed and a fair point. Although i still feel that if we keep this thread going, it shows that as customers we are still unhappy. It worked for the Pharos Rah winge thread did it not? ---
**Author:** ![Maxx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/maxx/32/50891_2.png) [@Maxx](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Maxx)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/579 "2018-02-18T03:40:33Z")
> [@Lardy-Porker](#): > > You appear to be showing DB being used by the player, **not the AI**. What is the AI using then? ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/580 "2018-02-18T13:48:27Z")
I’ll stop when we quit seeing “the PvP meta is broken” or “please make Guild Wars make my playstyle win” or “the text is incorrect on this troop” or “this ability is confusing, can you reword it?” or any number of really fundamental problems with every game mode that makes a big portion of the playerbase a little sad. By your logic, the devs obviously aren’t going to do anything about GW so people should quit crying about it. _It is not good logic._ People post what they don’t like about the game, and they talk about it. There are only two ways to get me to stop commenting about and snarking about Dawnbringer in arena: - Change the game such that we don’t have 1 weapon representing 30% of the pool with a significantly higher rate of success. - Tell the players “this is our intended design, we aren’t doing anything about it.” Both of those have a sense of finality. Nobody forced you to come read this thread. So with all due respect, go pound sand. ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/581 "2018-02-18T15:33:38Z")
Vanyel didn’t tell you to stop posting, they merely showed that telling one side of an argument to stop repeating their opinion over and over and not the other side is hypocritical in nature. So no “respectful” sand pounding today, calm down. ---
**Author:** ![vanyel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vanyel/32/32071_2.png) [@vanyel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/vanyel)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/582 "2018-02-18T17:37:16Z")
> [@Slypenslyde](#): > > By your logic, the devs obviously aren’t going to do anything about GW so people should quit crying about it. It is not good logic. Your attempted extrapolation of what I said is completely off topic and “not good logic”. > [@Slypenslyde](#): > > People post what they don’t like about the game, and they talk about it. By all means I agree and don’t recall trying to quash anyone’s right to do so. Unfortunately this thread is no longer and hasn’t been for quite a while, a discussion. And as long as people like yourself (thanks by the way for proving my point) continue to fiercely stomp out any opposing view point it will never be a discussion. > [@Slypenslyde](#): > > Nobody forced you to come read this thread. So with all due respect, go pound sand. Hypocritical much? Just as you have a right to post & “discuss” what you don’t like about the game, I have every right to read or not any thread on these very PUBLIC forums. So if you don’t want me to read it, don’t post it. And by YOUR logic, nobody is forcing you to play arena or even the game for that matter. Nothing in arena can’t be obtained through other means. So until the devs get around to dealing with arena on their schedule, do something else. ---
**Author:** ![Lardy-Porker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lardy-porker/32/25588_2.png) [@Lardy-Porker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lardy-Porker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/583 "2018-02-18T21:24:56Z")
Oops! Yeah, I didn’t notice that because of the already-armed DB on the player side. 😳 I’m not sure what it ultimately proves though-- are you saying that DB is so OP that you can’t even beat it w another DB? ---
**Author:** ![Lardy-Porker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lardy-porker/32/25588_2.png) [@Lardy-Porker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lardy-Porker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/584 "2018-02-18T21:36:07Z")
> [@Slypenslyde](#): > > So it’s only 30% of your total opponents, and brings your win rate down 9% more than all of the other weapons combined? I think you’re conflating two unrelated stats-- my apologies, I didn’t want to repost the whole chart. Let me just repost those numbers w more explanation: Overall Arena win rate: **93.9%** _This is my Arena win % for **all** matches, regardless of weapon_ vs. non-DB weapons: **96.6%** _My win rate vs any non-DB team. To answer your other question, I didn’t break the various weapons out, but Runic Blade was definitely the #2 most common choice. Interestingly, the non-DB weapon that did best against me was the **Mang** but I don’t know if that’s significant as the sample size in that case was very small._ wins vs. DawnBringer: **87.5%** _My win rate vs DB teams. 9.1% lower win % than vs non-DB teams. This can be spun as alarming-- 'Look, your DB loss % is almost 4 times as big as your non-DB loss % (12.5% vs 3.4%)!_ _In practice this isn’t so alarming-- I still win 7 out of 8 battles vs DB._ Arena matches involving DB: **29.3%** _This is an unrelated stat showing DB incidence, related to my claim that DB is capped at 30% in Arena. The win percentages for DB/non-DB above are therefore not affected._ ---
**Author:** ![Lardy-Porker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lardy-porker/32/25588_2.png) [@Lardy-Porker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lardy-Porker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338/585 "2018-02-18T21:43:41Z")
Your post is really well-argued and I agree with a lot of it. • It’s true that Arena difficulty modes are broken, but they have been since before DB-- even back in that lost ‘golden age’ I played Arena on only “Hard” level (now it’s always Normal level for me). The difficulty of Arena on harder levels ramps up much faster than the rewards-- this is something I’d love to see the devs fix! • Your point about the disadvantage to Yellow troops is interesting, it’s something I hadn’t considered before now. • I also agree that _“No spell should only able to cast once and win.”_ But as I replied elsewhere, I don’t find that to be the case with DB. Stopping that first cast is definitely job 1 when facing DB, but even in matches where they get a shot off I win the majority (if they get 2 shots off I lose pretty reliably). [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338.md?page=28) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338.md?page=30)