# Dawn bringer overpowered in arena mode **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [April 4, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878 "2018-04-04T21:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![thelastdragon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thelastdragon/32/58365_2.png) [@thelastdragon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/thelastdragon)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/1 "2018-04-04T21:42:08Z")
the dawnbringer weapon while it’s power is worth what it takes to make it, it’s just too overpowered in arena mode to be considered a fair fight since each troop you receive to fight with is random and you don’t know who or what you’ll facing intil the battle starts making arena more luck based than skill and since the troops you get dealt are all locked at level 15 and have no traits and being forced to use a hero weapon having to fight with only a normal rare and ultra rare aganist a mythic weapon that deals a base of 21 adding 2 for each yellow troop gives everyone including the hero barrier on top of adding two magic if there are 13 or more red gems and given all troops are random could end up having a troop that either create or tranforms others into red gems it just doesn’t seem fair and takes alot of the enjoyment out of arena mode I think it would be only fair to eiter ban or nerf mythic class weapons in arena mode since if the one attacking uses it you can just breeze past all the matches but if you are going aganist it will just wipe the floor with you and end your run right there and then ---
**Author:** ![Stan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/stan/32/29888_2.png) [@Stan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/2 "2018-04-04T21:44:49Z")
So, you’re not the first to mention this. In fact, there is a 6-month, 600 post thread just over here. Feel free to chime in though, it’s pretty-much universally acknowledged as a problem. > [@Dawnbringer unbalances Arena](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338): > > The dawnbringer doesnt seem like much. It deals aoe damage and is in line or behind legendary troops. This is cool if it is used in pvp, explore, etc. However, it is not… it is being used by players who already have 1.5 million souls to burn, so that they can instant kill your entire team in arena. And yes. 14 damage to everyone in the arena is a wipe, and its likely that their 10 damage, plus 2 for every yellow troop can get that high. Now add the barrier and its a complete loss. No matter how… ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/3 "2018-04-04T21:45:18Z")
See [Dawnbringer unbalances Arena](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawnbringer-unbalances-arena/30338). It’s been complained about for a long time. The only dev response so far has been, “If we take it out, you’ll complain about Runic Blade.” I don’t think it’s changing. ---
**Author:** ![Rockwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@Rockwell](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Rockwell)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/4 "2018-04-05T00:03:24Z")
I just don’t bother wasting time playing Arena. It’s pointless and virtually unwinnable unless you get a lucky run ☹ ---
**Author:** ![JuaitoR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/juaitor/32/11770_2.png) [@JuaitoR](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/JuaitoR)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/5 "2018-04-05T00:11:38Z")
There are way too many threads and people in general complaining about Dawnbringer in Arena. I very rarely lose in arena, even before aquiring Dawnbringer. There are at least 20 weapons that I like using in arena, depending on what troops I get to draft. Arena is my trophy/soul farming method. Glory keys get stacked rather quicky too. I have thousands of glory keys to use on friday, most came from arena. ---
**Author:** ![Gouki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/gouki/32/22405_2.png) [@Gouki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Gouki)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/6 "2018-04-05T01:52:29Z")
I agree, one can make a point about Dawnbringer being the strongest weapon in Arena, but not that it makes winning impossible by any stretch. I have yet to finish an aren a run with less than 8 wins since Dawnbringer was introduced, without using or even owning a Dawnbringer myself. Anyways in my experience it is futile to point that out, this thread like all DB threads before will quickly turn into just another echo chamber with people assuring eachother about how unwinnable matches against DB are instead of questioning their approach of the arena gamemode… ---
**Author:** ![Taliesin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@Taliesin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Taliesin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/7 "2018-04-05T04:07:32Z")
Arena in general is complete garbage. I’ve been running into every opponent I face has double the stats I have no matter what difficulty I play on. I use Db and it takes 2 cast to kill any of opponent team while one cast from Ai Db wipes out my whole team. ---
**Author:** ![PowerPlay](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/powerplay/32/3886_2.png) [@PowerPlay](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/PowerPlay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/8 "2018-04-05T13:38:14Z")
Runic Blade is a lot easier to deal with than DB. Hell, even DB is counterable by rushing down the hero. Unless you get a really crap draw in the troops you select, you’re gonna have a chance unless the board decides to give you the magical middle finger. I’m level 1109 and still play Arena because I find it more fun than PVP because PVP is basically a 3-team circus right now and I need variety in my meaningless existence. ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/9 "2018-04-05T15:11:12Z")
I agree, and I’ve argued that 6 different ways in the other thread. It really comes down to: Runic Blade is a 10-15 turn clock. Kill it before the first activation and you’re doing amazing. Kill it before the second and you’re still ahead. Kill it before the third and the match is scary. If it gets to a 4th activation, it’s a surprise you haven’t already lost. Dawnbringer is a 5-15 turn clock. Kill it before the first activation and you’re doing amazing. The first activation completely ends the game in many cases, but you can draft to survive it. The second activation means you aren’t coming back, it takes extraordinary circumstances to win in that case. That lower floor on Dawnbringer makes it too powerful for Arena. Or, at the very least, I’d like to see Dawnbringer relegated to a “hard mode” that has slightly better rewards. Now that I’ve played for nearly a year, I’m a lot better at surviving it. It was still unfair before I got a better intuition and it’s still unfair vs. this newer intuition. ---
**Author:** ![Saltypatra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/saltypatra/32/59750_2.png) [@Saltypatra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Saltypatra)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/10 "2018-04-06T04:40:22Z")
We are looking into possible solutions to this problem. However, as we have explained before, it’s not as easy as it seems. We can’t just remove DB from arena as the players that have invested in it will be unhappy. We can’t just remove all legendary/mythic weapons from the arena, because the players that have put the time into acquiring them will miss out on of their best uses. As such, we are looking into a few different ways to mitigate this issue that will work better long term. We don’t just want to introduce a stop-gap solution. ---
**Author:** ![Magius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cdc98d/32.png) [@Magius](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Magius)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 6:21am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/11 "2018-04-06T06:21:21Z")
I thought the problem was the _opponent_ with dawnbringer that skew the arena run. The simplest solution would be randomizing the opponent’s weapon on arena run based on his class colours? That way you don’t have to ban any weapons at all ---
**Author:** ![Sidousai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/sidousai/32/604_2.png) [@Sidousai](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sidousai)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/12 "2018-04-06T08:24:03Z")
Just make it so that non-DB users don’t get paired up against DB users. ---
**Author:** ![UKresistance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/ukresistance/32/7558_2.png) [@UKresistance](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/UKresistance)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 10:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/13 "2018-04-06T10:13:01Z")
No. We really really want a simple easy to implement server side stop gap. Filter out enemy heroes using dawnbringer. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Fourdottwoone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fourdottwoone/32/66655_2.png) [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 10:51am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/14 "2018-04-06T10:51:54Z")
> [@Saltypatra](#): > > As such, we are looking into a few different ways to mitigate this issue that will work better long term. We don’t just want to introduce a stop-gap solution. I raise and want to see. The Dawnbringer topic has been around for well over half a year. At this point you aren’t looking for possible solutions, you are looking to avoid communicating that you’ve already decided on the solution long ago, to not change anything at all. Either post those “different ways to mitigate this issue” you have been researching so meticulously or finally be done with it and end the charade. Sorry for being direct. My communication skills just don’t cope well with seeing the same generic zero-progress text module pasted over and over again into a high attention community topic. ---
**Author:** ![Slypenslyde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/slypenslyde/32/30373_2.png) [@Slypenslyde](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Slypenslyde)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 12:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/15 "2018-04-06T12:24:54Z")
> [@Saltypatra](#): > > As such, we are looking into a few different ways to mitigate this issue that will work better long term. We don’t just want to introduce a stop-gap solution. I’m going to put some hope in paragraph 2 but paragraph 1 is a straw man at this point. The people who want a change have mostly quit arguing for “total removal” long ago because it’s clear “remove it entirely” is unsatisfactory to people who like using it to farm trophies. So we shifted to a different, more widely accepted “please take it out of the defense rotation”. The most prevalent counterargument to that is, “Ha ha, git gud n00b, I’m the best at this game.” I will point out, however, that currently 15-20% my PvP matches are vs. Forest Troll / Nyx / Dawnbringer / Queen Mab, compared to maybe 1-3% when it was first said, “Arena is the only place Dawnbringer has real value.” I’m starting to think that argument doesn’t hold the same water it used to. Maybe this is one of the “few different ways”, a long game where you make useful other places for DB before taking this one away? I still think more people would be happy with a defense filter. There’s already a filter to protect level 200 players from it. I’d argue that needs to be bumped up to 400 or so, but it also implies that there’s already code to do something like this present. (I stuck to a dry tone and it sounds mad so just pretend I made a joke or something here to lighten the mood.) ---
**Author:** ![Zuboki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zuboki/32/28558_2.png) [@Zuboki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zuboki)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/16 "2018-04-06T18:22:22Z")
> [@Slypenslyde](#): > > (I stuck to a dry tone and it sounds mad so just pretend I made a joke or something here to lighten the mood.) I really hate how much I like you sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Doordash\_Support](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/doordash_support/32/45654_2.png) [@Doordash\_Support](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Doordash_Support)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/17 "2018-04-06T19:15:19Z")
Would it be possible to take it out of the defensive rotation? The AI beating the player in Arena nets nothing for anybody, so simply removing it from the AI pretty much solves the problem, no? @Saltypatra ---
**Author:** ![AngryMidget](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/angrymidget/32/10478_2.png) [@AngryMidget](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/AngryMidget)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/18 "2018-04-06T19:37:49Z")
This has been suggested time and time again and from what I’ve seen is by far the most viable option. But of course this isn’t going to happen. The counter argument is that a different weapon would then become a problem (this is total tripe however). There’s always going to be something that is stronger than everything else. However something being a tiny bit stronger isn’t much of a problem. Something being so strong it makes everything else obsolete is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![vanyel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vanyel/32/32071_2.png) [@vanyel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/vanyel)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/20 "2018-04-07T04:35:01Z")
> [@thelastdragon](#): > > everyone use their bug reporting system to mass report dawnbringer, sending about 50 copies of each message… How about you go first and let us know if you get banned for abusing their system. And if not let us know so every one waiting on legitimate tickets to be resolved can spam you with their feelings on making them wait longer. This is a lose-lose idea but have fun spamming the castle! ---
**Author:** ![GarlGrimslade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4bbf92/32.png) [@GarlGrimslade](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/GarlGrimslade)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878/21 "2018-04-14T19:11:49Z")
Dawnbringer is ridiculously overpowered in Arena and what makes it even more insane is the frequency that it pops up. I’m only around level 250 and it’s practically a guarantee that at least 3 or 4 battles will be against Dawnbringer assuming I get lucky with gem matches and the drafted troops and I actually make it past the first couple of battles. I have seen one Arena match where 6 out of 8 were using Dawnbringer. Put my vote in for just removing it from the defensive AI as an option. This is sucking all the fun out of Arena considering you only get two losses before getting kicked out. [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/dawn-bringer-overpowered-in-arena-mode/37878.md?page=2)