# Daily Troop Discussion! **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\ **Created:** [August 19, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106 "2017-08-19T16:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/21 "2017-08-19T17:35:13Z")
I agree… Only time i have ever seen her used is during her release week when she got a 50%boost… Since then? Never… Also since i am to new to remember the “true shot” fiasco i have heard so much about i have a question… Was entangled available during those times? ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/22 "2017-08-19T17:37:35Z")
We never see many builds or met any teams with her in PvP for PC/Mobile, can you explain that? Are the majority of people missing the things that you see? The majority must be stupid then, include myself? @vangor totally agree, thats the only week I have seen her, and even with the 50% boost I used her in like 2-3 matches… ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/23 "2017-08-19T17:39:49Z")
Artema is fine as designed. Her issue is a lack of decent Centaurs to team with. I don’t think her traits need fiddling with, and her spell numbers are fine within recent power creep bounds. Nice idea @eika. I look forward to the next one. ---
**Author:** ![JuaitoR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/juaitor/32/11770_2.png) [@JuaitoR](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/JuaitoR)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/24 "2017-08-19T17:40:22Z")
I can’t argue with that fact. Maybe I see things differently because I play against a different AI. I look forward to try it for myself though. ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/25 "2017-08-19T17:40:29Z")
Good point, a rework on other centaurs or get some new good centaurs in could be good. Get her mana cost a little down wouldnt hurt tho. ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/26 "2017-08-19T18:03:42Z")
I think the 75% and 100% are easy to counter with salad and will make the ai more challenging ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/27 "2017-08-19T18:04:31Z")
I was thinking that it would have been a nightmare especially in Guild Wars to be up against. ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/28 "2017-08-19T18:06:34Z")
Yes but think of how satisfying it would be to go in there and breakin fools off who have 75% or 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Tacet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tacet/32/35_2.png) [@Tacet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tacet)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/29 "2017-08-19T18:38:53Z")
I think she should be reduced down to a 15 mana cost to be the same as Gorgotha. If I am not mistaken, she originally was supposed to come in at a 15 mana cost, but was raised to a 16 before release. ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/30 "2017-08-19T18:52:18Z")
Is that the only change she will be needing? ---
**Author:** ![brandonwiker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/brandonwiker/32/14837_2.png) [@brandonwiker](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/brandonwiker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/31 "2017-08-19T20:39:44Z")
Change legendary trait to 50% dodge Reduce spell cost by 1-2 ---
**Author:** ![Eika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/eika/32/103088_2.png) [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/32 "2017-08-19T20:40:05Z")
we are getting there, brutta… ---
**Author:** ![Draprion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/draprion/32/8238_2.png) [@Draprion](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Draprion)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/33 "2017-08-19T23:21:23Z")
Gorgotha’s 3rd trait is effectively a 75% dodge, which makes him better at that. His mana generation from explodes is also better. And he cleanses himself. Less mana to cast as well. Artema does damage but it’s not much, and I agree her centaur mates are rather weak to put in a decent team for the extra boost. Ignoring armour is good but many don’t play skull spam on invade. So overall, Gorg is still the better choice. ---
**Author:** ![Draprion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/draprion/32/8238_2.png) [@Draprion](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Draprion)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/34 "2017-08-19T23:27:02Z")
This has got me thinking about explode a row/column vs explode random gems on the board. I’m afraid my maths ain’t up to it so would like to request some help. Exploding a row/column gives you 24 gems worth of mana, x70% if I’m not wrong. Exploding 1 random gem gives you 9 but the more you explode the more likely it will be adjacent to another random exploded gem so you might get less. So here’s my question, statistically, on a 8x8 board, how many random gem explodes generates more mana than a row/column explode? I’m really curious about this. ---
**Author:** ![Zuboki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/zuboki/32/28558_2.png) [@Zuboki](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Zuboki)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/35 "2017-08-20T02:45:40Z")
> [@Draprion](#): > > So here’s my question, statistically, on a 8x8 board, how many random gem explodes generates more mana than a row/column explode? I’m really curious about this. I’d say about 4 single explosions is the same amount of gems destroyed as a full column or row. At most that yields 36, but it often ends up being less due to overlap. ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 4:49am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/36 "2017-08-20T04:49:44Z")
> [@Draprion](#): > > Artema does damage but it’s not much This part is wrong. Her damage compares just fine with any similar troops. @eika what’s next? ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 4:59am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/37 "2017-08-20T04:59:32Z")
I’ve heard that the legendary trait does not dodge status applications from touch traits or Psion’s Siphon trait like Agile does when it fires. If this is the case, this is the main thing that needs to be fixed. > [@Draprion](#): > > So here’s my question, statistically, on a 8x8 board, how many random gem explodes generates more mana than a row/column explode? I’m really curious about this. Apples and oranges, really. Row explode is the least likely to generate random secondary cascades because the removed gems have to be set up for a split vertical match for you to get anything started toward the bottom, and you can see this ahead of time, so the potential for cascades comes mostly from the 3 rows cleared at the top. Column explode is slightly more likely, since a horizontal match triggered at the bottom can create more cascades down the line, but you can’t set up any intentionally. Random explodes that only hit _some_ of the board are the best, because you are removing existing gems in a jagged pattern from a board that is most likely unbalanced on colors (given the prevalance of converters). Anything that explodes 5+ gems will almost never have you walking away with just the mana you gained from exploding the gems. You might even gain full mana for every single troop and an extra turn. If you explode the _entire_ board, you’ll get a new one and still might trigger some cascades, but in my experience, you want about 1/3 to 3/4 for cascade potential. All of them can set your opponent up for a match 4 that leads them into being able to take half a dozen or more match 4s that conveniently fall into place, which is the bane of every exploder. Back to the matter at hand, Artema is being done a disservice by being compared to Gorgotha. Gorgotha is a tank/support/mana generator while Artema is a damage dealer/skull threat that happens to have a minor board mod spell. The reason she is not used much is because her spell damage is below the mark level for something that pretty consistently gives up the turn, does not disable at all, and often barely generates any mana, and her front line ability is not consistent both offense or defense wise, and she gets boosted by centaurs which lack a lot of utility - all intentional pieces of her design. Her role is niche because of this, but that does not make her useless by any means. I think a good place to have her at would be for her spell to threaten a kill on the second cast (fully maxed troops vs fully maxed troops) if in a full centaur group, and on the third if she is the only centaur in the group. She can do that now with Leader bonus, but only versus certain teams, and unfortunately not a lot of meta teams can be threatened by this at endgame, which is a large reason as to why she is not used. Oracle class can change this, but is a whole lot of setup to make the troop good (unless we get a _lot_ better hero weapons with crafting, particularly on the support/mana generation end). I don’t think she specifically needs any buffs (outside of potential fixes), but some better support in the centaur race would be nice. ---
**Author:** ![Vangor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/vangor/32/31404_2.png) [@Vangor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Vangor)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 5:37am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/38 "2017-08-20T05:37:48Z")
> [@Jainus](#): > > This part is wrong. Her damage compares just fine with any similar troops The problem is her damage isnt high enough to make her an equal option with gorgotha ---
**Author:** ![Jainus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jainus/32/34949_2.png) [@Jainus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jainus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 6:27am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/39 "2017-08-20T06:27:43Z")
> [@Vangor](#): > > The problem is her damage isnt high enough to make her an equal option with gorgotha The problem is people keep comparing her to Gorgotha, which isn’t a useful comparison at all. Please re-read @mithran’s long and articulate post above… If we had more usable Centaurs, especially with some board control and mana acceleration, and not just Anthea’s hit or miss board spam, then I think we could craft some pretty viable teams with Artema. @Mithran the Oracle class really doesn’t help as the Magic stat gain is on _enemy_ spell casts - and if you let the enemy have too many of these, you’re losing too badly for a bit more Magic spell damage to help. The Oracle class needs to buff on _ally_ spell casts to help here - or give something like +5 Magic on enemy casts… triggers on enemy casts are not useful - it’s uncontrolled - and if you are letting the enemy get many casts, your battle is slow and you are heading towards a loss… ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 6:52am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106/40 "2017-08-20T06:52:41Z")
You mean [this thread](http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/troop-buff-a-h-thread-with-summary/16393)? [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/daily-troop-discussion/29106.md?page=3)