# Changes to Cedric's Rewards **URL:** \ **Category:** Official News\ **Created:** [January 22, 2024, 5:13am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090 "2024-01-22T05:13:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![G0blin0verL0rd7](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/g0blin0verl0rd7/32/72891_2.png) [@G0blin0verL0rd7](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/G0blin0verL0rd7)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/21 "2024-01-22T17:13:55Z")
Since the devs won’t introduce the Dragonite Gnome into the Vault, maybe add Dragonite into Cedric’s droptable? ---
**Author:** ![icy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/icy/32/71999_2.png) [@icy](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/icy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/22 "2024-01-22T18:47:55Z")
> [@G0blin0verL0rd7](#): > > Since the devs won’t introduce the Dragonite Gnome into the Vault, maybe add Dragonite into Cedric’s droptable? that would benefit the players. what a great idea! _uncontrolled laughter in the office_ * * * in all seriousness should possible rewards in some way be tied to “hero level”. ---
**Author:** ![Darkborne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkborne/32/95796_2.png) [@Darkborne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkborne)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/23 "2024-01-22T21:29:46Z")
Replacing the demon gnome with a dragonite gnome when we use epic vault keys? What a great idea! “After looking into this issue, we have decided to revisit this topic in 2 years.” Glug. Glug. Glug. Burp. Ahhhhhh.🍺 ---
**Author:** ![platinumpwnzor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/platinumpwnzor/32/31551_2.png) [@platinumpwnzor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/platinumpwnzor)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/24 "2024-01-22T22:24:29Z")
Great, a consistant chance between gnome and tarot drops. But, that’s not what everyone is looking for. We just want Cedric to not be 80+% of the gnome drops. ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/25 "2024-01-22T22:25:54Z")
I really don’t understand what this is meant to address. Both tarots and gnomes, new and old, will continue to get rarer and rarer as the drop pool is diluted, requiring more and more vault keys on average to get a single copy. Being “chase” items, you obviously want them to be rare but the fact that they are on Vault keys has _already_ led to a situation where people need to grind a ridiculous amount of keys and in so doing collect a ton of other loot, which then has to be progressively devalued or reworked for the rest of the game. You don’t seem to want to implement the most common suggestion of dropping things off the loot table after you have 4 of them at mythic. A reason for this could be because this would allow players to “frontload” an avg of about ~1600 vault keys +20 ascenscion orbs and then pick up every new tarot when it becomes available for ~10 vault keys, or 40 plus an orb , rather than the current paradigm where it takes _on average_ around 200 vault keys to get a single specific tarot which lets the people that pick them up as they land (but not buy them in campaign passes/kingdom events) an outlet for vault keys. Instead, why not: Create 3 drop tables, similar to how you have done now. The first table consists of only “loot”. This should be 100% chance. Proportionally increase the chance of whatever you consider cedric’s _worst_ 3 loot drops so that other drops on the table retain the same relative chance as when the table itself was only an overall 80% chance. Then, you have an (independent) 20% chance to roll a single sub table as a “troop” drop. One sub-table is gnome, and the other is tarot, which start at a proportion similar to what they have now. The _overall_ chance of pulling a specific gnome at this point would be 0.66% and the overall chance of pulling a specific tarot would be 0.5%. Whenever a new tarot or gnome is added, simply shift the sub-table roll AND the total troop roll accordingly to preserve these percentages as they are today. With the system being automated, this is a one-time set-up cost to futureproof the system for years. For example, if you added 21st Tarot in the pool with 15 gnomes (including Cedric, which I’m not sure is represented here because the chance seems a _LOT_ higher than any other gnome) would change the bonus troop drop chance to 20.5%. There would be a ~48.8% chance for this to be a gnome (overall 0.66% chance per vault key for an independent one, assuming equal drop chances, which they aren’t, but the point is that they would _proportionally_ change regardless) and a ~51.2% chance to drop a tarot (preserving the 0.5% chance each) The reasoning here is that the “value” of the vault troop, be it for a collector or someone who wants to actually use it, plummets after they get a single copy. By fixing the percent chance of old drops so it won’t get _worse_ from here on out, you prevent certain desirable vault drops from becoming an even worse point of frustration for late adopters (the people that would be early or mid-game in 2023). When looking at pain points for an aging game, the perceived “barrier to entry” is _always_ something you should be prescient of. On the flip side of things, new “chase” items continuously enter the vault, people that grind vault keys compulsively (the “early adopter” crowd) can have something new to chase. There is a conflict here with the way Tarots are done in that you currently straight up just sell them most of the time, thus removing them as an incentive for these early adopters to actually have this to “chase” in the vault in the first place, but you seem to want to add more gnomes. ---
**Author:** ![ANGI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@ANGI](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ANGI)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/26 "2024-01-23T14:23:19Z")
@Kafka Maybe I didn’t understand this change, but why I’m getting the feeling that it might be good for me (playing since 2017) and it might be worse for newer players not owning every tarot/gnome now? ---
**Author:** ![Estella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Estella](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Estella)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2024, 4:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/27 "2024-01-23T16:06:43Z")
thank you for these changes. I agree with Darkborn concerning Cedric. He’s better be treated like guardian troops from guild chests. Other matter, Lots of new players need The Devil that is currently impossible to have. Can you add it to the pool ? Many thanks 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2024, 11:36pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/28 "2024-01-23T23:36:53Z")
> [@platinumpwnzor](#): > > Great, a consistant chance between gnome and tarot drops. But, that’s not what everyone is looking for. We just want Cedric to not be 80+% of the gnome drops. If all Gnome/Tarot drops were in the same pool previously (with equal drop rates inside the pool), then your likelihood of getting a (any) Gnome vs. a (any) Tarot card was skewed slightly towards whichever one has more Troops to pick from. I can see that being _some_ kind of issue on the technical side. Now I have to wonder: is Cedric in a separate or same drop pool from other Gnomes? He _seems_ to drop a lot of the time, but… ---
**Author:** ![Namour](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/namour/32/2957_2.png) [@Namour](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Namour)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2024, 11:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/29 "2024-01-23T23:55:56Z")
I’ve opened 420 vault keys since hermit was supposedly released. Have got dupes of literally every other tarot card except Hermit. Have people been finding The Hermit? ---
**Author:** ![Raistlin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/raistlin/32/61294_2.png) [@Raistlin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Raistlin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/30 "2024-01-24T00:08:37Z")
I did a bug report on his drop rate last year ([Cedric drop rate in Vault needs to be addressed](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/cedric-drop-rate-in-vault-needs-to-be-addressed/81505)) and it was ignored by devs. ---
**Author:** ![Elfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/258eb7/32.png) [@Elfin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Elfin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 1:54am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/31 "2024-01-24T01:54:17Z")
Out of 10 VK used yesterday, 4 were Cedrics. I do get the concept of RNG but Cedric is just way out of whack. Maybe we should do some community data gathering - number of vaullt keys redeemed, number of gnomes other than Cedric, number of Cedrics. But maybe that’s already been done? ---
**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 1:59am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/32 "2024-01-24T01:59:49Z")
At one point, they buffed Cedric’s drop rate when it was already dropping in a plentiful amount. It was startling then and it hasn’t made any more sense since. ---
**Author:** ![Elfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/258eb7/32.png) [@Elfin](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Elfin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 2:11am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/33 "2024-01-24T02:11:02Z")
Buffed it !!! Well that explains a little…you really only need Cedric for short time (relatively) - esp now with paloozas every 4 weeks. I like Cedric, I even used him today, but seriously, no one needs this many Cedrics. I do think this is an instance where, if you sat down to test, and opened 100 VKs, it would be much clearer why we keep asking for the cap like the guardians. ---
**Author:** ![Stratelier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@Stratelier](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Stratelier)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 3:54am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/34 "2024-01-24T03:54:33Z")
> [@Elfin](#): > > Maybe we should do some community data gathering - number of vaullt keys redeemed, number of gnomes other than Cedric, number of Cedrics. But maybe that’s already been done? I’m always up for some data collection (I’ve drafted a spreadsheet to log data in if anyone wants to volunteer some runs) – though I agree it really does seem like something that somebody _might_ have done already? ---
**Author:** ![Dust\_Angel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/dust_angel/32/35256_2.png) [@Dust\_Angel](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Dust_Angel)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 4:02am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/35 "2024-01-24T04:02:45Z")
> [@Elfin](#): > > Maybe we should do some community data gathering > [@Bored spreadsheet corner](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/bored-spreadsheet-corner/82490/5): > > Since there was something mentioned about vault key contents in another thread, here comes about 7800 keys (normal + epic), if anybody feels like sifting through and analyzing because, allegedly, keys have been nerfed, I hear. Recording (OpenOffice spreadsheet) starts at the introduction of vault battle difficulty selector - all battles done on hard - while actual key opening dates begin somewhere in September of 2022. Normal keys go in plain black text, epic keys go in bold pink; (for easier … ---
**Author:** ![Namour](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/namour/32/2957_2.png) [@Namour](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Namour)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 4:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/36 "2024-01-24T04:35:56Z")
Perhaps they mean ‘since this change was made’ to see if there are any unexpected outcome from the changes. ---
**Author:** ![Asmodai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/asmodai/32/92925_2.png) [@Asmodai](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Asmodai)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 7:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/37 "2024-01-24T07:18:34Z")
> [@Darkborne](#): > > The gnomes, tarot cards, and Cedric need to be treated like guardian troops from guild chests. Once we have 4 copies of each unique troop, they should no longer drop, so that we have an increased chance of getting better rewards. This + the same for Dragon eggs! The cheers and thankfulness from the Playerbase would be incredible! ---
**Author:** ![Kumo69](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/kumo69/32/94562_2.png) [@Kumo69](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Kumo69)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 7:31am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/38 "2024-01-24T07:31:25Z")
Is there going to be an update for the Vault Event it self, like increasing the spawn rate of the Verses Gnomes because some of us would spend up to an hour or two and see nothing? ---
**Author:** ![ThaSneakyNinja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/thasneakyninja/32/70097_2.png) [@ThaSneakyNinja](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ThaSneakyNinja)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 9:08am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/39 "2024-01-24T09:08:26Z")
Thank you for explaining this! 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Nvidia100](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Nvidia100](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Nvidia100)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090/40 "2024-01-24T17:41:22Z")
The epic vault key neeeds to have Cedric removed as a reward. The shards are useless as well. Most of the time a regular vault key has better rewards than an epic one due to the shards no one needs. [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/changes-to-cedrics-rewards/83090.md?page=3)