# Brown Task Change a BIG Nerf **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)\ **Created:** [September 14, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336 "2016-09-14T03:35:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Studs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/studs/32/3498_2.png) [@Studs](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Studs)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/21 "2016-09-14T16:33:17Z")
The bottom line is that Commons are only useful for completionists and kingdom stars. Ultra-Rares, Epics, Legendaries, & Mythics are the troops everyone uses for their teams. It doesn’t matter how many gold keys you need, glory keys are still way more valuable. I’d rather have 200 glory keys than 20k gold keys. With those 200 glory keys I’m going to be able to build a pretty decent team that will take me far. With your 20k gold keys you’re going to have a bunch of commons and rares… that you’ll stop using as soon as you get the rarer troops. The only way in which a crap load of Gold Keys is more valuable is if you _only_ need Minor Traitstones and Commons. If that’s the case, fine; however, the fact that it’s bad deal for you personally doesn’t mean it’s a bad deal overall. Again, I don’t fully understand their exchange rates, but it’s undeniable that 150 glory keys \> 1200 gold keys. ---
**Author:** ![Mekkalyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mekkalyn/32/21868_2.png) [@Mekkalyn](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mekkalyn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/22 "2016-09-14T16:38:11Z")
Definitely unfair. We were going to get a LOT of gold keys and instead it got replaced by a rather insignificant amount of glory keys. I now wish that they had kept it the same. I had assumed they were just going to number tweak rather than make it complicated and tuck glory keys into the brown tree. Why couldn’t we just have seen a reduced amount of gold keys and an increased amount of glory keys from their respective paths?? And the ratio is horrible and this was actually a nerf. That was a heck of a lot of keys lost just to gain a tiny amount of glory keys. ---
**Author:** ![Shimrra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shimrra/32/87_2.png) [@Shimrra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shimrra)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/23 "2016-09-14T16:45:50Z")
> [@Mekkalyn](#): > > Why couldn’t we just have seen a reduced amount of gold keys and an increased amount of glory keys from their respective paths?? Basically what I was thinking … ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/24 "2016-09-14T17:08:01Z")
> [@turintuor](#): > > So in a perfect world, you will need 19k gold keys. Ascension is supposed to be a _long term_ goal. Its part of the reason why the economy was changed in the first place. Common ascensions are still in a much better place than they were pre-patch, and should no longer be bottleneck status once spare resources from the old economy have been cleared out. And when common troops _aren’t_ holding you back, you are going to wish those gold keys are something else. Besides, the 670 offered per week right now are practically free, so _everyone_ should have a much easier time than before. There are too few glory keys offered for too much gold for their relative drop rates on respective things. You still need thousands or tens of thousands to hunt out your ascencions (sometimes that many even to get the first of a specific legendary) but the amount available and their respective cost as _plummeted_ from version 2.0.1, at nearly every single progression level. I know this was very a deliberate change, but I still think it was a bit of an over-correction - you’ll still need some combination of around 30k gold keys/10k glory keys to get a _rare_ to mythic with no other ways to obtain them, the acquisition of which I’m projecting to take me about 30% _longer_ than it did to get the gold keys for mythic commons prepatch without me ever spending gold on gold keys direction and while also not being in a max guild. So, “rare” troops are the new ascension bottleneck? Maybe, maybe not. The economy has on a whole made stuff of rare+ harder to ascend for a good portion of the playerbase, which was kinda the point. Legendaries will probably still be my bottleneck until a kingdom event repeat rolls around six months after a troop’s release. > [@Studs](#): > > I’d rather have 200 glory keys than 20k gold keys. I tend to agree with your assertion as far as troops go but… 20k gold keys would give on average 12k glory and 200 gems (personal numbers, others would say 400) and around 140k gold Obviously you’d take the 20k gold keys. In regards to 160 glory keys versus 1530 gold keys, those gold keys would have given: roughly 15 gems (30 says other sources) Around 902 glory (45 glory keys if you were so inclined) over 25k gold (useless at this point because you can’t feed it back into the system, though, since you’d be maxing tasks at this point) Meanwhile, resource drops from glory keys themselves are spread between a “push” (glory, gems, roughly equal and occasionally slightly higher value) and a “null drop” (major traitstone, gold, unquestionably lower value). For me personally, I might have actually taken the gold keys if I were at all starved for them, but since I’m sitting on over 9k that I have yet to open, I’d probably be more inclined to take the glory keys even at these pitiful numbers, because they are so much more limited and annoying to obtain from other sources. The fact that I’d even have to think about it highlights just how low the glory key numbers are. It might very well also be moot to try and compare the numbers of what was _never_ actually in game with what we ended up getting. Bottom line, really, is that all the glory key related stuff is probably paying out less than it should. Suggestions: - Restore brown task to entirely gold keys. Lower the return on investment for the higher level tasks so we end up with less than 2200 gold keys overall if we were to complete it, but more than 670 (say, 1500?). - Buff yellow task to 200% or 300% of current values. Even a 300% buff would have it be a comparatively worse reward ratio than what was offered pre-patch over the task, and it would still have taken a bigger overall hit than gems. Or, just remove a lot of the garbage drops from glory keys. Or some combination of both. - While we are on the subject, buff purple to at least 150-200%% of the current values. Especially at lower levels where this might actually matter to someone. Cost per soul is already higher slightly after the halfway point of the task line than it was prepatch (or before halfway, considering individual tasks), which was already pretty much universally considered a bad deal. - Give green 1 or 2 extra event keys total over the task line to more evenly spread things out and avoid dropping off on RoI before their respective points on green/blue, even when directly comparing just gem values. Event keys are the lowest relative value of the gem items for a large portion of the playerbase (usually used by players trying to get a day 1 legendary, or for hoarding for many weeks to get your last legendary you’d need from an otherwise random drop, less useful in small quantities while building a collection), so this one should probably have a slightly higher RoI. - Leave red/blue where they are. ---
**Author:** ![Studs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/studs/32/3498_2.png) [@Studs](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Studs)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/25 "2016-09-14T17:33:28Z")
Clearly I was being facetious with the 20k Gold Keys argument, but the point still stands that we’re getting way more value now than we were previously. These changes were made due to popular demand by the players. Restoring to Gold Keys would piss off way more players. Right now, I only see a couple of edge case reasons why someone would want all those Gold Keys. That said, I can see an argument for buffing the Glory Keys a little, especially given the comparison to where we were previously. And I definitely think the Souls payouts should be buffed. While the top players have no need for Souls, it would definitely help out lower level players. I have to disagree with Event Keys though. They’re balanced in terms of costs to align with Red/Blue, so if you believe Red/Blue are okay, then so are the Event Keys. The real issue is perceived value (i.e., Event Keys are situationally useful but cost considerably more than Gem Keys). ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/26 "2016-09-14T20:59:38Z")
> [@Studs](#): > > Clearly I was being facetious with the 20k Gold Keys argument, but the point still stands that we’re getting way more value now than we were previously. I know, I was as well. Just saying that gold keys are _not_ totally trash given sufficient huge quantities because they _do_ lead back into other stuff, just kinda mostly trash because of the quantities it takes to make that happen. I also think green is pretty good where it is at now, but for a lot of people, event keys arent worth their 13.5 to 15 gem price tag. A couple more isn’t much either way, but having the RoI just consistently very slightly higher considering direct gem value of the keys. One way or the other, a couple keys would only be a 5% change, so it doesnt matter that much. This could possibly also be accomplished by simply moving a single key from level 10 to level 8 - the RoI would be consistently very slightly higher for greens all the way through to that point, then, and its looking like most guilds capable of doing level 10 tasks would also do level 11 either way. Mostly, its just the glory key numbers that seem way off to me, and souls could also use a little buffing. Even if brown 7+ stay clones of yellow, bringing yellow to where they should be would also bring these brown in line, which should be enough for most people. I agree that we really _dont_ need all that many extra gold keys from the guild per week just to work on the ascend commons to mythic goal. 2200 (and maybe even 1500) extra gold keys on top of what I am already getting would have me amassing more than enough gold keys to mythic a common from a new kingdom in the intervening two months between kingdom releases without even having to buy any with gold, which is precisely the type of resource bloat I believe the patch was trying to address in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/27 "2016-09-15T01:24:53Z")
> [@Studs](#): > > The bottom line is that Commons are only useful for completionists and kingdom stars. Ultra-Rares, Epics, Legendaries, & Mythics are the troops everyone uses for their teams. It doesn’t matter how many gold keys you need, glory keys are still way more valuable. I’d rather have 200 glory keys than 20k gold keys. With those 200 glory keys I’m going to be able to build a pretty decent team that will take me far. With your 20k gold keys you’re going to have a bunch of commons and rares… that you’ll stop using as soon as you get the rarer troops. Because you really think that the small stats improvement obtained with the Ascension system change a lot of things in battle? No, I don’t think so. For me, yes, it’s only a question of completion. Alchemist and Valkyrie are Rare troops and are quite used… Goblin is a Common one. I don’t see why it’s more difficult to ascend them just because they are less popular. With 200 glory keys, you do nothing… Do you mean for a new player that didn’t unlock all the troops? Okay. But for you, what do you expect with these 200 glory keys? A Mythic? Good luck. It can take 50 glory keys like 5k… A Legendary? Yes, you will have some of them but good luck to drop the ones that you need. Once again, why do you need glory keys? > [@Mithran](#): > > Ascension is supposed to be a long term goal. Its part of the reason why the economy was changed in the first place. Common ascensions are still in a much better place than they were pre-patch, and should no longer be bottleneck status once spare resources from the old economy have been cleared out. And when common troops aren’t holding you back, you are going to wish those gold keys are something else. Besides, the 670 offered per week right now are practically free, so everyone should have a much easier time than before. I cannot quote all your text but: Yes for the long-term. But why Ultra-Rares (only 40 copies) are so easy to make into Mythic troops compared to Common ones? 670 gold keys is nothing compared to the required 19k (in the best case)… 2.2k was fine. Yes, the probability to obtain something useful with a glory key is so low that devs have to give x5 or x10 this kind of keys by week. And they are not going to do it because they have the “economical hammer” above their heads. So maybe they will convert one ressource to another like they did but I don’t believe about a important buff of one ressource. Devs change the rewards so we have to use all our ressources for a new Mythic or to ascend a new Legendary. Before the patch, I used like 5% of my ressource for that. ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 7:35am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/28 "2016-09-15T07:35:26Z")
> [@turintuor](#): > > But why Ultra-Rares (only 40 copies) are so easy to make into Mythic troops compared to Common ones? Because people were getting thousands (or even ten thousand) glory keys weekly. Ten thousand glory keys is basically enough glory keys to get mythic on every “rare” card currently in existence or close to it, and even get nearly two copies of every legendary and a mythic or two as well, on average. This won’t happen anymore. The severity of this “common bottleneck” always depended in the past on how many glory keys your guild did weekly relative to how many gold keys you got personally. Since mine was about 1:1 for most the time (early on, I got much more gold keys than my gold got glory keys, and later on we had a few weeks when we got much more glory keys than I could possibly obtain in gold keys), by the time I was ascending my first few rares to Mythic, my commons were a good deal of the way into legendary. Ultra rares that I _didn’t_ have a glut from a specific kingdom event didn’t roll in until later, and many of my epics and most of my legendaries are still not ascended. Several months afterward, I’m now showing more rares _total_ than commons universally (no disenchants). This was caused by getting more total drops of rares than commons, even when having roughly equal amounts of gold and glory keys per week - I’d get 3 commons per rare from gold keys, but then an equal amount of rares from glory keys as I had obtained commons from gold keys, for a total ratio of 4 rares per three commons. Fast forward to now. With the ratios of how many gold keys to how many glory keys I gain weekly now closer to between 6:1 and 8:1 (since my guild wont max the glory tasks, and I get a good amount of personal gold keys by collecting often and having full three star kingdoms). With these new ratios, I should have new commons fully ascended _first_, then rares, then ultra rares, then epics, and finally legendaries - exactly how it should be. Remember, other than just guild or buying them with gold, you also get a small amount of gold keys from battles, a bunch per week from glory packs (usually 300+ for me), and a bunch per week from tributes (usually 700+ for me, conservatively). Combined with the gold keys even from the current ask iterations, it really doesn’t seem too unreasonable to mythic a common within a few months of release, or be able to get to the point where you can save beforehand and mythic it right away. Certainly less time than the 15k-18k or so _glory_ keys you would take you in the new system to get an ultra-rare to mythic, to the point where you are much more likely getting it mythic from incidental drops from event keys which is possible only once every six months. Or the 36kish glory keys to mythic your legendaries. The gem and event keys given will close _some_ of this gap, but _everything_ should be slower to mythic compared to commons going forward. More gold keys will not help with any long term goals. > [@turintuor](#): > > Devs change the rewards so we have to use all our ressources for a new Mythic or to ascend a new Legendary. Before the patch, I used like 5% of my ressource for that. And this is exactly the task system was changed. Although I don’t see how more gold keys will help that in the slightest. Once your glory key cache from the old economy finally dwindles, you’ll see that the glory keys are indeed more valuable going forward. We just need glory key numbers brought back up a bit closer to where they were pre-patch (or a couple of the worst drops, like major stones and gold, removed completely, with higher rarity troops buffed slightly). ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 8:40am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/29 "2016-09-15T08:40:16Z")
You need in theory: - 1330 glory keys to fully Ascend an Ultra-Rare - 10384 glory keys to fully Ascend a Rare or - 29910 gold keys to fully Ascend a Rare Of course, you can use a combinaison of glory/gold keys. - 14420 gold keys to fully Ascend a Common (was wrong before) Number of weeks according to guild task rewards only/ +1k Gold keys: Old system: 236 glory and 2200 gold keys. UR: 5.6 Rare: 10.3/7.7 Common: 5.1/4.5 New system: 396 glory and 670 gold keys. UR: 3.3 Rare: 16.5/8.5 Common: 17/8.6 So yes, you’re right about Rare troops ;-). But you can see that UR are quite easy to Ascend. And I think gold keys will make it easier to Ascend rare than glory keys. It really depends of how much gold keys can be earn. My fault, I should give less to my guild… Don’t forget that all these “data” don’t take any deviation into account ;-). > [@Mithran](#): > > Although I don’t see how more gold keys will help that in the slightest. And I don’t see how 100-200 glory keys will change anything… If you’re asking to change 396 to 1.5k glory keys, I think you asked something impossible… ---
**Author:** ![Mithran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mithran/32/18064_2.png) [@Mithran](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mithran)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 8:51am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/30 "2016-09-15T08:51:51Z")
> [@turintuor](#): > > You need in theory: > > - 1330 glory keys to fully Ascend an Ultra-Rare > - 10384 glory keys to fully Ascend a Rare > or > - 29910 gold keys to fully Ascend a Rare > Of course, you can use a combinaison of glory/gold keys. > - 14420 gold keys to fully Ascend a Common (was wrong before) > > Number of weeks according to guild task rewards only/ +1k Gold keys: > Old system: 236 glory and 2200 gold keys. > UR: 5.6 > Rare: 10.3/7.7 > Common: 5.1/4.5 > > New system: 396 glory and 670 gold keys. > UR: 3.3 > Rare: 16.5/8.5 > Common: 17/8.6 The numbers for ultra-rare look way off. I’m seeing about a 10% drop rate of a specific ultra-rare from a glory key, and 45 ultra-rares currently in game, which would translate to roughly a 1 in 450 chance to get any specific ultra-rare. If these numbers track, needing 41 of an ultra-rare for mythic, you’d need a total of 18450 glory keys. This will be softened a bit by gem keys and event keys. Specifically event keys, since new kingdoms are generally focused down like this anyway, so its less of an issue for those already at the top, but those just starting out and building a collection could have a rather long wait. The other numbers look much closer to what I had calculated. > [@turintuor](#): > > It really depends of how much gold keys can be earn. My fault, I should give less to my guild… My conservative 1k gold key a week personal gold key gain is from tributes and glory packs alone. I haven’t spent a dime on gold keys, and since my guild doesn’t max every week, likely never will. I don’t really need to, with the numbers how they are, anyway. > [@turintuor](#): > > And I don’t see how 100-200 glory keys will change anything… > If you’re asking to change 396 to 1.5k glory keys, I think you asked something impossible… The glory key numbers should just better reflect both what they were pre-patch, and the massive amounts needed to make any kind of progress in ascending. Though given the _choice_, getting even a few of what will be the bottleneck troops going forward is preferable to getting tons of troops you’ve already finished. > [@turintuor](#): > > And I don’t see how 100-200 glory keys will change anything… > If you’re asking to change 396 to 1.5k glory keys, I think you asked something impossible… EDIT again: My previous recommendations, in number form: The 396 glory keys should be between 468 and 702, and all belong to the yellow task. The 670 gold keys should be 1500 gold keys and all belong to the brown task. RoI will of course be lower, but it makes more sense this way. The 5900 souls should be 12k+ souls. One of the 7 event key tasks should be moved down to the second 5 event key task, for a very small buff in RoI on green for lower guilds (pretty much irrelevant). ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336/31 "2016-09-15T11:00:00Z")
You’re right for the glory keys I forget a “0”… Sorry ☹ . [Previous page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/brown-task-change-a-big-nerf/12336.md?page=1)