# At this rate, EMPOWERED troops are going to ruin this game **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [March 14, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023 "2020-03-14T22:10:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Yano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@Yano](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Yano)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/1 "2020-03-14T22:10:14Z")
There have been similar posts but I’m specifically calling out empowered gem converters as there is a rapidly growing trend of defensive double empowered gem converter teams. This is garbage. You will severely limit the variety that should exist in this game, given the impressive number of troops, if you insist on continuing to release gem converter empowered troops. There is nothing wrong with empowered troops, just lay off the gem converting. Give them a cool attack with a status or two or knockback so you can affect the opponent’s strategy/AI but please stop the nonsense of these types of troops. ---
**Author:** ![Lorien1973](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lorien1973/32/75546_2.png) [@Lorien1973](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lorien1973)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/2 "2020-03-14T22:26:45Z")
Need more empowered mana drainers ---
**Author:** ![agentronin316](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/agentronin316/32/9921_2.png) [@agentronin316](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/agentronin316)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 10:40pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/3 "2020-03-14T22:40:30Z")
This complaint is nothing new. Ever since Mercy was introduced as the first, there have been complaints about empowered converters. They’re not going to change this. > [@Mercy requires a rebalance {Changed my mind}](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/mercy-requires-a-rebalance-changed-my-mind/10932): > > Mercy has Empowered, it should, no NEEDS, Fast. Console version got Blighted Lands and Infernal King today and Mercy is the lynchpin to dozens of way-too-powerful teams. I completed 82 battles with The Great Maw/IK/Mercy/Sheggra; 82 wins, 0 losses 1:07 average time for each battle 23 battles where I had an ideal Mercy board, allowing a first-turn cast. 21 of those battles the AI had ZERO moves 0:42 average time for each of these “ideal” battles This is literally the definition of overpo… ---
**Author:** ![HounganAtLarge](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/hounganatlarge/32/28697_2.png) [@HounganAtLarge](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HounganAtLarge)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/4 "2020-03-14T22:41:20Z")
If they downgraded pure gem converters from empowered to fast, that small change would make a huge difference. ---
**Author:** ![Lorien1973](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lorien1973/32/75546_2.png) [@Lorien1973](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lorien1973)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/5 "2020-03-14T22:50:49Z")
Outside of gw, empowered troops are the best … they speed everything up and simply make things flow more nicely. Things shouldn’t be removed for a mode that wouldnt see improvement anyways. Empowered mana draining troops would solve a lot gw issues, 50% starters for example and neuter some of the painful groups in pvp. ---
**Author:** ![turintuor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/turintuor/32/4097_2.png) [@turintuor](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/turintuor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/6 "2020-03-14T23:17:02Z")
As other already said, just add a Medal that drains X (1 for the badge and 3 for the medal 🤔) mana at the start of the battle of all enemy troops. ---
**Author:** ![Shimrra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/shimrra/32/87_2.png) [@Shimrra](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Shimrra)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 7:29am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/7 "2020-03-15T07:29:17Z")
I’ve been saying it for years. Mercy warped the entire game, so what do they do … make a one-off counter to her in Spirit Fox, then do a ton of Mercy clones to propagate the madness. ---
**Author:** ![Darkness](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/darkness/32/2712_2.png) [@Darkness](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Darkness)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 9:22am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/8 "2020-03-15T09:22:15Z")
> [@Shimrra](#): > > I’ve been saying it for years. Mercy warped the entire game, so what do they do … make a one-off counter to her in Spirit Fox, then do a ton of Mercy clones to propagate the madness. This is 100% correct. I’ve played this game since about 3 weeks after it’s been released and Mercy is the troop I’ve used the most according to GOWBD, exactly because of what @Shimrra states above. And that’s just when talking about invading. Empowered converters are even more unbalanced on defense… ---
**Author:** ![jpraveensn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jpraveensn/32/74494_2.png) [@jpraveensn](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/jpraveensn)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/9 "2020-03-15T12:21:33Z")
There are a bunch of gem converting empowered troops. Yet most(!) battles are won by the offense, and not the defense. I think it is alright to have them. I find it odd to see Leprechaun kind of empowered troop. Explodes the board and in the same color as his mana req. Many players would’ve found this as an unusually irritating battlecrasher this week. ---
**Author:** ![Lorien1973](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/lorien1973/32/75546_2.png) [@Lorien1973](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lorien1973)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/10 "2020-03-15T13:28:09Z")
He sucks, but I flash back to when phoenicia was battle crasher… ---
**Author:** ![Thevc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a8b319/32.png) [@Thevc](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thevc)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/11 "2020-03-15T15:00:39Z")
I totally agree with the OP. And it’s not just wars and pvp that causes irritation because we have the same problems in most game modes. Fast would be sufficient for these troops. This week I lost 3 wars fights and 2 of those were down to turn 1 armageddon at the hands of an empowered team that i had no chance to counter on my 1 and only turn. The love affair the devs have with this kind of troop is probably down to laziness and lack of ideas, in the same way that weapons which create a mix of gems for each ally of a specific type are. Empowered troops especially converters are bad news and cause frustration for many if not all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Globey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/globey/32/57119_2.png) [@Globey](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Globey)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/12 "2020-03-15T16:49:39Z")
LOL Gems Of War is that tough life! ---
**Author:** ![Megaqwerty](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/megaqwerty/32/58238_2.png) [@Megaqwerty](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Megaqwerty)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 8:43am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/13 "2020-03-16T08:43:57Z")
I do agree that empowered converters are ultimately bad for the game, but it’s too late for that. They’re here and we’re only getting more and we’re going to keep getting more until there’s one for every color combination. Others have said what is the most organic solution, both for players and devs, for this problem: **empowered mana drainers** (that is, Spirit Fox clones). We need these in every color permutation, too. ---
**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 9:04am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/14 "2020-03-16T09:04:17Z")
Brown could use some serious help. Astral Spirit (Yellow/ Blue), Spirit Fox (Green/Purple). Red has anti-green (4) and anti-yellow (3). Brown has anti-red (Daughter of Ice). I guess Soothsayer, though I would hardly call that reliable… ---
**Author:** ![Mana\_Surgeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mana_surgeon/32/55678_2.png) [@Mana\_Surgeon](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mana_Surgeon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/15 "2020-03-16T21:27:48Z")
> [@jpraveensn](#): > > There are a bunch of gem converting empowered troops. Yet most(!) battles are won by the offense, and not the defense. I think it is alright to have them. Agreed. Players have adapted to these troops, and I find them generally uncontroversial. That said, I also agree with Idle’s comment, having a few more strategic options wouldn’t hurt for certain colors. ---
**Author:** ![igniteice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/igniteice/32/67904_2.png) [@igniteice](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/igniteice)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/16 "2020-03-16T21:31:32Z")
> [@jpraveensn](#): > > Yet most(!) battles are won by the offense, and not the defense. That’s only because the AI is truly, spectacularly bad. They make the most moronic plays you can imagine, even when they’re supposed to be “very difficult” because they’re playing against a level 1500 player or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Thevc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a8b319/32.png) [@Thevc](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thevc)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/17 "2020-03-16T21:55:27Z")
Yes but it’s because the AI is so unintuitive in terms of game mechanics and strategy that the best defences in pvp and wars are those that can cast repetitively without ‘thinking’. Empowerment facilitates and speeds up these “blind teams” and it’s gone into overdrive because it’s an easier “fix” than addressing the very bad AI. It doesn’t matter that people are sick of facing these empowered teams over and over in pvp or that there are next to no empowered mana drainers for countering. As far as the devs are considered it’s all back slapping for a job well done. We know it as another example of a band aid on a broken leg. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jonathan/32/66724_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/18 "2020-03-16T23:29:08Z")
I think we like Empowered troops on offence, but not on defence, for the same reason we like Potions in any mode except Guild Wars (i.e. ones that don’t require a capped, level playing field). We want things to go faster, to get to the ‘good bits’ sooner, where we’re blowing stuff up and doing lots of damage, controlling the board. Get rid of Empowered troops, and make (a variety of) Potions more available in the modes deemed acceptable 🤷‍♂️. Allow troops in Explore or similar modes to ‘equip’ Medals that grant them half or full mana or similar mana boosting abilities 🤷‍♂️. Restrict defence teams to only be allowed one Empowered troop 🤷‍♂️. Spirit Fox isn’t a **reliable** counter to any Empowered converter, including ones that convert to/from Yellow. There are particular board setups that just won’t allow it, that would hand the opponent a bunch of 4 matches, which, combined with explosions and a storm, essentially bring them back to the same state they were before you cast. If the enemy fields Gimlet, who converts Green → Brown, a combination of Tai Pan (Brown\>Red) and any of the Green\>X (probs not skulls) converters is _usually_ pretty reliable at disarming him in most situations, taking care of either side of his conversions. This requires twice the amount of Empowered converters, though. An alternative is to field your own Gimlet, casting if there’s an advantageous board, letting them cast if not. This isn’t fool-proof either, though. If the board isn’t quite right for you to cast - e.g. only one or two 3-match alignments are available - leaving it for the opponent could be enough for the enemy team to fill a critical troop, and carries the risk of them receiving a cascading 4-match (not the kind of chance you want to bank on yourself, but devastating if it happens against you); taking it yourself could similarly hand over an unknown, potentially game-ending board; and attempting to ‘pass the turn’ by making a trivial, off-to-the-side 3-match could do the same. An Empowered troop that passes the turn without altering the board could help, e.g. Faunessa, but that takes up another valuable troop slot, limiting your possible team options. Maybe that’s the real kicker - limiting team options - especially when the same PvP defence teams show up not only in adjacent trophy options (e.g. 2-trophy and 3-trophy, differing only in banner) but in successive selections, or when troops are already limited, as in GW. If the enemy fields _two_ Empowered converters, there aren’t enough team slots to reliably cover all sides of their conversions (and win without it being incredibly boring), and running the same two converters isn’t fool-proof and doesn’t give room for a lot of creativity. Running one of your own often works out okay - but occasionally, the board just isn’t in your favour, and that can be annoying (when the match seems stacked against you before you’ve even started). Would this apply if there were no Empowered converters? Occasionally you might be presented with a starting board where your only option is to make a 3-match that hands them (or could potentially hand them, via skyfall) a favourable board. I’d say it’s probably less likely, and less likely to be as devastating - but I guess with Lightning Strike traits, etc., the board and the game can turn very quickly, regardless. Maybe a turn-passing option could be interesting, but there’ll inevitably be a level of disparity there, too (in the original Puzzle Quest, you could make an illegal move and forfeit 5 health points, but that would favour whoever had the most health if no one wanted to make the match). I guess I don’t really know the best answer, but I guess I also don’t really like feeling limited in the viable options that I can take into PvP. Sometimes I don’t want to run a double-Empowered converter Zuul’Goth team, but I guess that’s when I play a 1-trophy match or head to Explore or w/e. Maybe if PvP wasn’t essential - for Tier 1 rewards or pets - I’d feel better about only playing it if I felt like coming up with counters to those teams, rather than being creative (team-wise) in how I chased after those rewards. (New solution - remove Tier rewards from PvP, redistribute elsewhere, put Pet Gnomes in other modes, give Cosmetic Titles and Flair for PvP winners and champions, maybe give them a bonus in some other mode like Arena or something.) ---
**Author:** ![TheIdleOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@TheIdleOne](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/TheIdleOne)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/19 "2020-03-16T23:42:47Z")
> [@Jonathan](#): > > Spirit Fox isn’t a **reliable** counter to any Empowered converter, including ones that convert to/from Yellow. There are particular board setups that just won’t allow it, that would hand the opponent a bunch of 4 matches, which, combined with explosions and a storm, essentially bring them back to the same state they were before you cast. > > If the enemy fields Gimlet, who converts Green → Brown, a combination of Tai Pan (Brown\>Red) and any of the Green\>X (probs not skulls) converters is _usually_ pretty reliable at disarming him in most situations, taking care of either side of his conversions. This requires twice the amount of Empowered converters, though. The situation that happens with Spirit Fox or Astral Spirit here can easily happen when having to use an empowered to block the cast of an AI empowered. (you block their unbreakable alignment, but end up leaving a 4/5 match somewhere else to grab after your cast) ---
**Author:** ![Fvffar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/fvffar/32/35063_2.png) [@Fvffar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fvffar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/at-this-rate-empowered-troops-are-going-to-ruin-this-game/62023/20 "2020-03-16T23:44:29Z")
The best counter so far is “fight fire with fire”, that means using the same team you have to face and hoping that the advantage of the first move will give you the upper hand. At least in my experience. But this happens in case there would be no cheaters. Now, cheaters have their board “prepared” for triggering cascades and recasts and there is nothing to do about that. So my PvP experience is, quickly go for tier 1, report the same old guys, then forget PvP until the next painful week. 😄