# Are warband banners +2/+2/-1, or +2/+1/-1?
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192
**Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback
**Created:** [January 15, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192 "2021-01-15T14:26:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Snooj](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Snooj)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/1 "2021-01-15T14:26:00Z")
Now that the devs have confirmed the new Labyrinth banner giving +2/+2/-1 was intentional, can we get some sort of hint about the new warband banners so we know which are +2/+2/-1?
New +2/+2/-1 banner:
Mystery warband banner, unknown if this is +2/+1/-1 or +2/+2/-1:
Though, I still suggest we make the new +2/+2/-1 banners be visually different. By appearance we know what these all mean without needing any text:
 
It is only the three colour banner that isn’t clear anymore. One idea could be to make the new +2/+2/-1 banner have two vertical colours and a border. That is, make it look like a +1/+1 banner, like the blue/brown example above, and give it a border of the -1 colour.
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### Author:  [@Sytro](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Sytro)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/2 "2021-01-15T14:32:35Z")
Bought today Fire and Fury:
+2 red +1 yellow -1 blue
looks like +2/+1/-1
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### Author:  [@blindnighto](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/blindnighto)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/3 "2021-01-15T14:39:39Z")
 
They are already in game as +2/+1/-1
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### Author:  [@Snooj](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Snooj)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/4 "2021-01-15T14:54:09Z")
Never noticed I could see unowned banners. Awesome thanks. Learned two new things today.
I am still going to ask for an obvious visual indicator though to separate the +2/+1/-1 and +2/+2/-2 banners. 😉
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### Author:  [@Nemesis\_Online](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Nemesis_Online)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/5 "2021-01-15T15:04:16Z")
They could simply introduce a new color for the crown thingy on top (in addition to the silver and gold used today).
I’m still convinced they simply screwed up and are now wondering whether to leave things be as they are, like they did with The Warrens, so this could very well remain a unique anomaly not needing any particular signaling.
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### Author:  [@Neritar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Neritar)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/6 "2021-01-15T17:06:49Z")
> [@Snooj](#):
>
> Now that the devs have confirmed the new Labyrinth banner giving +2/+2/-1 was intentional
Could you please point me out where devs confirmed it?
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### Author:  [@BUSCHKA25](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/BUSCHKA25)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/7 "2021-01-15T21:43:15Z")
Salty confirmed during the Twitch stream on Monday
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### Author:  [@Tibo](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tibo)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/8 "2021-01-15T22:05:24Z")
> [@Nemesis\_Online](#):
>
> They could simply introduce a new color for the crown thingy on top (in addition to the silver and gold used today).
Not much help, I never recognized the “crown thingy”.
On the new +2+2-1 banners the +colors could be diagonally painted while the border still could mean the -1 color.
EDIT:
I can imagine that situation that banners are not pictures but rendered by formula. which would be stupid, but we have seen stupid things in gow.
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### Author:  [@Eika](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Eika)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/9 "2021-01-15T22:18:43Z")
Did she said anything more? Will the +2/+2 banners be the new thing for the rest of the factions? I always wonder why the first one did not have - 2, but -1 after having +2/+2. But I won’t complain.
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### Author:  [@cyberkiwi](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/cyberkiwi)
#### Post date: [January 15, 2021, 11:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/10 "2021-01-15T23:35:58Z")
I don’t understand why everyone keeps asking for +2/+2/-2 as a “fix” for the “imbalance”.
The banners are most important for the factions, for which there is always one colour missing, so that the factions are always gaining +2/+2 with no negative effect.
For the rest of players, more often than not banners are selected to enhance one or two primary colours only, so the negative banner effect is much of a muchness really IMHO.
tl;dr - increasing the negative effect does not negate positive effect
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### Author:  [@ESR77](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/ESR77)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/11 "2021-01-16T00:41:20Z")
> [@Nemesis\_Online](#):
>
> I’m still convinced they simply screwed up and are now wondering whether to leave things be as they are, like they did with The Warrens, so this could very well remain a unique anomaly not needing any particular signaling.
I tend to agree. It will be interesting to see what the next one released does.
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### Author:  [@Magnusimus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Magnusimus)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/12 "2021-01-16T01:34:58Z")
> [@cyberkiwi](#):
>
> increasing the negative effect does not negate positive effect
I’d tend to agree in most cases, but I still think having the same net-gains across all banners is better game balance, as a general rule. But you’re right that it’s pretty easy to avoid having the minus color present at all, so it doesn’t matter if it’s -1 _or_ -2 because both are irrelevant to that team. That’s why, even though I still think -3 would be more appropriate than -1, it’s not really solving the problem as I see it.
But why not have a +2, +2, **-1** , **-1** instead? _That_ would be a net-balance that is _interesting_ because - suddenly - it’s harder to avoid being penalized for that big +4 “advantage.”
I get banners are probably only currently programmed to deal with 3 colors at a time, but. That’s not a great argument for having net +3 banners, imo.
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### Author:  [@Snooj](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Snooj)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/13 "2021-01-16T02:03:31Z")
> [@Neritar](#):
>
> Could you please point me out where devs confirmed it?
> [@Eika](#):
>
> Did she said anything more? Will the +2/+2 banners be the new thing for the rest of the factions? I always wonder why the first one did not have - 2, but -1 after having +2/+2. But I won’t complain.
As @BUSCHKA25 said, Salty confirmed this was intentional in the last stream. I made the suggestion then to make it look visually different.
Salty didn’t really say much else about it. Not how often this will happen, etc.
> [@Magnusimus](#):
>
> But why not have a +2, +2, **-1** , **-1** instead?
I actually really like this idea. Sure it’s a penalty but as you said, it is interesting.
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### Author:  [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/are-warband-banners-2-2-1-or-2-1-1/68192/14 "2021-01-18T13:50:43Z")
> [@BUSCHKA25](#):
>
> Salty confirmed during the Twitch stream on Monday
The bug report here on the forum is still open. Anything Salty said while streaming probably only counts as personal opinion, otherwise there would have been an update. It’s not like she hasn’t been wrong in the past, like when she kept on insisting that the Werewoods faction belongs to Maugrim Woods, even when confronted with data to the contrary.