# Apply the same metric to GW Bracket winners and losers **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Requests and Game feedback\ **Created:** [December 23, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/apply-the-same-metric-to-gw-bracket-winners-and-losers/60240 "2019-12-23T16:37:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/jonathan/32/66724_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/apply-the-same-metric-to-gw-bracket-winners-and-losers/60240/2 "2019-12-24T00:06:39Z")
# Pros: The great part about this, imo, is that even if a guild drops several Brackets for whatever reason, 1. It should be just as easy to climb back up for doing well or for hard work 2. They should still be in a section of the Brackets that largely corresponds with their level of play The proposal would mean that a more even distribution of scores amongst GW Brackets would more quickly be reached than what is currently in place. At the moment – without full access to Bracket data, of course – we still have lower-scoring guilds mixed in with higher-scoring guilds in the upper Brackets, and vice-versa in the lower; and I don’t even know if we’re halfway towards reaching a rough ‘equilibrium’, so to speak, following the [changes to Bracket calculations](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/our-guild-placed-in-wrong-bracket-ps4/47014/20) that allowed for jumping several at once (also at bottom of post!). * * * # Counters: The main explanation I’ve seen for why progression remains slow is as follows: > [@Guild Wars Bracket System - Has it been addressed in 3.3?](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-wars-bracket-system-has-it-been-addressed-in-3-3/36983/44): > > given the 1-3 years most top guilds took to establish themselves, we feel that 6-10 months to rise up the brackets for a new guild is not unreasonable. Understanding this post does require a bit of context, though, so I recommend checking out the entire thread. Nonetheless: - The time taken to rise up the Brackets for PC/Mobile is well beyond 6-10 months - I’d really like to see some examples of these top guilds that had to spend even 1 year entirely in uncompetitive Brackets with rewards akin to Brackets 100+ - **Things don’t always have to be the way they were**. We’ve seen this in many forms already: If a better way of doing something comes along, I think we should jump aboard. * * * # Potential for Bracket gaming: The only other problem or counterpoint that I can see at the moment is the increased potential to game Brackets for the newly introduced 50 Gem reward for winning a Bracket – however this is really only feasible between Brackets 99 and 100, and I think the level of reward for the effort required, and the number of _additional_ guilds it might affect (beyond those currently able to do so) is so marginal it’s barely worth considering, realistically. If the possibility was wanted to be removed entirely, the reward could be adjusted to a meagre 15 Gems for winning any Bracket in the 100+ region (as 10+15 gives the same reward as the tier above). I’d only suggest or be okay with this if progression from Bracket ~400 to Bracket 100 was much quicker. ![Screenshot_2019-12-24-08-57-14-796_air.com.and.games505.gemsofwar](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/3X/b/0/b0f646ef826ca6d56803c517ed5bf4d0c5c1ae03.png) * * * # The Bracket Victory reward; personal thoughts On the subject of the newly-introduced reward for winning a Bracket, I appreciate it as a gesture of good will, and I’m hoping it’s a temporary offering to appease us while they work on a more permanent solution – because while appreciated, I really don’t think it addresses all of the concerns that have been raised with regards to GW progression. I think it’s hard to know what the devs’ thoughts are here – all they’ve said in the patch notes is: > [@4.7 Update (Patch Notes)](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/4-7-update-patch-notes/59896/1): > > We’ve been listening to your feedback and have implemented 2 changes to Guild Wars to improve them. > > […] > > - We are giving rewards for Guilds who come first in their Bracket – they will earn 50 Gems (this is separate from rewards earned from the Guild War Leaderboard). This bonus will be given to Brackets 2 and below (this means Brackets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.). Engagement on the subject is critical, imo. I believe active listening should include confirming with the other party that you’ve understood. We do however know that Sirrian historically wanted something like this: > [@Some suggestion from Tyrant to Devs](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/some-suggestion-from-tyrant-to-devs/33898/23): > > personally I’d really love to revisit rewards (including a nice incentive for placing highly in your bracket no matter WHICH bracket you’re in) * * * # Suggested reading for GW Brackets: - [Guild Wars and Rankings](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-wars-and-rankings/24903) (Original introduction of GW Brackets) - [Guild Wars Bracket System - Has it been addressed in 3.3?](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/guild-wars-bracket-system-has-it-been-addressed-in-3-3/36983) (GW changed to every 3 weeks, community concern over climbing brackets) - [Climbing up Guild Wars brackets - Case example: Gems of Thr0nes (PS4)](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/climbing-up-guild-wars-brackets-case-example-gems-of-thr0nes-ps4/33253) > [@Our Guild placed in wrong bracket PS4](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/our-guild-placed-in-wrong-bracket-ps4/47014/20): > > The changes to Guild Wars brackets climbing is something which we’ve mentioned a lot in the past several months since Guild Wars was moved from every week to every 3rd week. > > A lot of our community felt that it was going to take an unreasonable amount of time to climb the brackets even when they absolutely smashed their bracket every Guild Wars - and we agreed! So in light of this, as of this week we’ve made it possible for Guilds who are dominating their brackets to move up more than 2 Brackets per Guild Wars. > > This also means that as usual, when Guilds rise in the brackets they push other Guilds down in Guild Wars ranks to make room for themselves in the Guild Wars rankings. > > […] > > At this stage we’re not going to give a lot of detail about how the new bracket climbing system works, much like we don’t give away the exact formulas for Guild Wars Point scoring. > > However, we are monitoring how it affects Guilds very closely, and if it needs to be improved further we will definitely do so, as our goals as a dev team are the same as yours as players: > > We want a challenging, fun Guild Wars where every Guild is in a bracket which is suited to their activity and skill level and we want Guilds to reach the bracket they truly fit in sooner than waiting 3 years to get there even though they dominate the competition by a long shot every Guild Wars. * * * @ChunkyMono I appreciate your continued efforts here. --- _[View the full topic](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/apply-the-same-metric-to-gw-bracket-winners-and-losers/60240)._