# 5.0 Stream Discussion thread (unofficial)
**URL:** https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610
**Category:** Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)
**Created:** [July 7, 2020, 12:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610 "2020-07-07T12:59:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Smash](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Smash)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 12:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/1 "2020-07-07T12:59:35Z")
Figured we can move discussion here rather than in the streaming channel, so people have a place they can vent and discuss the changes.
Preview Stream Recap:
> [@Gems of Streaming](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/gems-of-streaming/30463/3667):
>
> 5.0 Update Preview Stream Notes Credit: @Redi1 for the stream screen captures. Stream has completed. Please free to call out errors or any significant omissions for correction. This update, as a major update, contains changes that many will find controversial. Please create new threads to discuss these changes to better focus discussion and feedback on each of these changes. Thank you for your understanding. – A Recap of Past Major Updates to Gems of War 5.0 is a major update to GoW. Ma…
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### Author:  [@Redi1](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Redi1)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 1:10pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/2 "2020-07-07T13:10:02Z")
To clear up some things early…
   
The top row will be gained by everyone completing the campaign. The bottom row (containing some troops, weapons, and pets) will require the Elite Pass. Elite + Pass will give extra stars to get some rewards early and extra rewards past 1000 stars.
Troops, but not this particular pet I believe, will be in keys and the soulforge rotation 4 weeks after campaign end. Weapons should be craftable in the same soulforge rotation as their kingdom.
 
(Images From Borjay)
This is the new schedule but does not show weekend events since we dont know all of those.
- ToD will be moving to between campaigns.
- GW will be every 4 weeks and overlap with other events.
- World event will be the other 10.
- Raid will be joining Invasion as a weekend event.
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### Author:  [@Smash](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Smash)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 1:12pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/3 "2020-07-07T13:12:44Z")
Yes the stats gained from the Artificat will be in ALL modes in the game except Arena. That does include Guild Wars.
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### Author:  [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/4 "2020-07-07T13:18:27Z")
Artifacts expire “at the end of the campaign”. Does that mean anybody without the Elite+ Pass will be able to enjoy the full bonuses at best for a few days instead of a few weeks?
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### Author:  [@Smash](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Smash)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/5 "2020-07-07T13:23:53Z")
yeap thats how it works.
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### Author:  [@Magnusimus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Magnusimus)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/6 "2020-07-07T14:56:30Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#):
>
> Does that mean anybody without the Elite+ Pass will be able to enjoy the full bonuses at best for a few days instead of a few weeks?
At least it’s enough to have the stats for a dozen or so delve attempts 🤷♂️
On a more general note: I’ve made it pretty clear in the past I’m F2P and that I’d buy Deathknight Armor if it were retroactive. Everything else was too expensive.
$1 a week for a guaranteed mythic in addition to the once-a-month mythics seems like okay-value for the money. I don’t know if I can afford it, especially with Covid considerations, but. I’m actually considering it since it’s not the exorbitant $50 for _one_ mythic (as in the current shop—which only recently was made to be a **new** mythic, mind you) that I’ve always felt was ludicrous. Depends on if I want a birthday gift on my actual birthday this year, or if I’d rather stretch that gift out for myself (probably only if the content looks like stuff I’ll actually use, not that anyone asked or needs to know my meagre fun-budget particulars 😆)
Any campaign _without_ this mythic incentive (probably) wouldn’t be, for me.
My only real complaints (sight unseen, and assuming I might have missed some information somewhere) are:
1. Guild Wars stats. Even if I do end up spending $50 a year on this game, I’ll _still_ be at a **HUGE** disadvantage at the most lucrative event in the game if the numbers I’m seeing aren’t changed. It’s Pay to Win, no longer just Pay to Get Content First. And that sucks.
1.5) Kingdom stats (maybe) also Pay to Have, in similar fashion to Guild Wars stats, if pets and other things are necessary at any point to upgrade kingdoms fully. Remains to be seen.
1. Major issues not being addressed — weapon upgrades, class updates, medals being global rather than attached to teams, balance changes (buffs sorely needed for older content!), etc… Not surprised these haven’t been added here, but disappointed nonetheless.
2. Paltry rewards for the campaigns. This would be fine if they were unlocked just for playing the way a typical endgame player plays, but they’re not — I’ll have to go out of my way to play maps, for instance, losing resources all the while because it’s not as profitable as other game modes _ **and only in order to** _ get the stats because the other rewards on offer basically amount to nothing. Add something useful like deeds to the free track, and it’s better. Or if Maps are soon updated to drop better loot, this could also be solved — remains to be seen. But regardless, I’ll be playing _differently_, and at times asked to play _more_ than the already-too-much I already do. And the tasks that require resource expenditures? Blatant taxes.
But all in all, I think I am tentatively happy to have snotstone tasks back. I didn’t like their removal, so I see their re-admittance as a win.
We’ll see if the other shoe drops on me hard enough to make me change my tune soon enough, I guess 😆
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### Author:  [@Smash](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Smash)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/7 "2020-07-07T14:59:18Z")
Keep in mind with the rewards, they are different than what we have seen on the beta, in all the refreshes of the rewards we have had, and there is a chance they will change before they are released as well.
Id say hold off about any and all complaints about the rewards until the actual campaign is released, and we can see what we actually get
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### Author:  [@HugeOgre](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HugeOgre)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/8 "2020-07-07T15:08:32Z")
@Saltypatra @Kafka(can you pass this on for us 🙏) Please please please, do not include campaign bonus stats in GWs. there are so many troops already that have massive power creep from when they were introduced. if stats are going up more, please prioritize troop rebalance!
I think the prime example(there are more) if i was to give one is Thrall. These are my stats outside of any GWs or campaign bonuses. i am personally missing 2 magic points from kingdoms currently. That gives Thrall 47 +2(my kingdoms) + 6(campaign) + 11(GWs) = 66 gems destroyed. yes, that is THE ENTIRE BOARD. for a troop that can guarantee fill on a single three match with a purple banner.
**is this intended???**
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### Author:  [@Neritar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Neritar)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/9 "2020-07-07T15:18:38Z")
After your post, Thrall will be nerfed and campaign bonuses won’t be removed from GW.
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### Author:  [@HugeOgre](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HugeOgre)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/10 "2020-07-07T15:20:21Z")
> [@HugeOgre](#):
>
> if stats are going up more, please prioritize troop rebalance!
by, “more” i mean the campaign stats would be the more.
that is a fine outcome. and other troops need to be reviewed. i dont have the time to go through them all i just felt thrall was the most obviously game breaking.
EDIT: i do feel like it would be “easier” for the devs to remove the extra stats from GWs rather than reviewing a bunch of troops and deciding on rebalance.
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### Author:  [@Neritar](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Neritar)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/11 "2020-07-07T15:33:34Z")
I understand that from GW standpoint you want to nerf troop which used more in defense but not in offense. I myself want to nerf doomed books for that exact reason.
But Thrall is a very good troop in events, I will be upset if he will be nerfed and many others too.
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### Author:  [@HugeOgre](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/HugeOgre)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/12 "2020-07-07T15:50:44Z")
nothing def vs offense here, that hasnt crossed my mind, certainly not my intention to make GWs easier. only trying to point out game breaking level of stats. Thrall can certainly be used on attack too.
if he is fine how he is in other modes then the answer is to remove bonus stats from GWs 🙂
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### Author:  [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/13 "2020-07-07T16:49:06Z")
Uh, let’s talk lemonade for a sec. Is there any way to avoid getting the Free Pass and still keep playing?
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### Author:  [@Magnusimus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Magnusimus)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/14 "2020-07-07T17:52:24Z")
For what reason would you not want the free pass? It’s going to be the new default — no way to play the game without updating, that I’m aware of.
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### Author:  [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/15 "2020-07-07T18:20:13Z")
> [@Magnusimus](#):
>
> For what reason would you not want the free pass?
Well, after some number crunching it boils down to two reasons:
1.) The rewards from the Free Pass have a negative net worth, you gain more by ignoring the tasks and just playing your regular way.
2.) The temporary stats gained from the Free Pass have a huge impact on PvP payout. Players at the top of the curve should get at least 50% more gold on average by avoiding them, without fights taking any longer with the proper teams.
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### Author:  [@Magnusimus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Magnusimus)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/16 "2020-07-07T18:27:24Z")
1. I disagree here, because you can just ignore treasure hunt and anything else you wouldn’t have otherwise done, to avoid min-ing when you want to be max-ing resource gains over time. If you don’t change the way you play at all, this will still yield _some_ gains, however small — a net positive.
2. Agree wholeheartedly that the bonus stats sinking PVP gold is a major flaw of the system. Because team score is such a flawed metric, anything that touches it amounts to Punishment for Progression.
It’s my hope, though, that if you’re the type of person to ignore the new stars (and not rush getting the stats), then most people you’ll be fighting will actually get more than you, which should _help_ F2P endgamers on the PVP economy.
Still sucks for Pass Buyers, though. Like buying a sundae’s toppings only to find out the little brown flecks were mites, not sprinkles.
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### Author:  [@Lyrian](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Lyrian)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/17 "2020-07-07T18:52:12Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#):
>
> Well, after some number crunching it boils down to two reasons:
Then, it sounds like you want to ignore Campaigns entirely and play like you do now in 4.9.5?
Just pretend that Campaigns don’t exist. Campaigns are their own self-contained mode, so they can be technically ignored without negatively impacting anything in the game, AFAIK. It would be the same as the game is now.
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### Author:  [@Thevc](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Thevc)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/18 "2020-07-07T19:17:54Z")
I hear a death knell lol.
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### Author:  [@Fourdottwoone](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Fourdottwoone)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/19 "2020-07-07T19:35:18Z")
> [@Magnusimus](#):
>
> I disagree here, because you can just ignore treasure hunt and anything else you wouldn’t have otherwise done, to avoid min-ing when you want to be max-ing resource gains over time. If you don’t change the way you play at all, this will still yield _some_ gains, however small — a net positive.
Let’s look at that a little more in detail. The total rewards you get from the Free Pass are these:
8750 gold
3780 soul
490 glory
32 gold key
18 glory key
4 gem key
2 event key
90 Minor/Major Traitstone
34 Runic Traitstone
30 White Pet Food
4 Epic Ingots
16 Treasure Maps
680 Shards
40 Chaos Shards
The glory/gem/event keys would probably be okay, except that the tasks require you to spend more of those than you gain, likely at times you don’t want to spend them. I’m not really seeing anything else remotely worthwhile, except possibly the 490 glory. And maybe the 680 shards that can be turned into 6.8 diamonds, for a very lose definition of “remotely worthwile”.
To get all those fantastic riches you have to spend hours jumping through 160 hoops, when you could just spend 5 minutes on a farm delve run for the same loot. This desperately needs a carrot to warrant spending so much time and resources, especially with the extra stats also significantly reducing PvP gold payout.
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### Author:  [@Magnusimus](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Magnusimus)
#### Post date: [July 7, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610/20 "2020-07-07T19:42:34Z")
> [@Fourdottwoone](#):
>
> To get all those fantastic riches you have to spend hours jumping through 160 hoops
To get them in total, sure.
My point is that if you _don’t_ because they’re _worthless_ then your hours will be spent doing what you _want_ and you’ll still come out ahead because you’ll have _some_ free things, even if you miss out on some, too.
Unless I’m misunderstanding how these tasks are completed. I don’t think they’re like the Adventure Board, where you have to actually fight specified battles in its own game mode for resources you (usually) don’t want. I think they’re more like the old Weekly Tasks, where earning snotstones was passive and didn’t really affect gameplay for anyone who didn’t care to do them.
As for PVP gold nerf: see my comments above. It will be bad for those who buy the best passes (probably), and that sucks. But _because_ it is going to hurt their gold economy by increasing their team score, it _might_ help those who don’t buy passes face higher teamscores and — thus — earn _more_ than they currently do, not less.
[Next page](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/5-0-stream-discussion-thread-unofficial/64610.md?page=2)