# 2.1 in progress...can we have infos?

**URL:** <https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177>\
**Category:** Gameplay Chat (General)\
**Created:** [July 5, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177 "2016-07-05T05:39:12Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![en9nhcet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/en9nhcet/32/1673_2.png) [@en9nhcet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/en9nhcet)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/41 "2016-07-06T23:00:46Z")

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But this game is my hoarding simulator! i will not be stopped! 🕶

 ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/a/aeaef8c834c7e454410249a7884301c60fb93c26.gif)

i leave you with a pic of my goblin horde…hoard xD

![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/2/2fbe4ba52a10e5dfd11f2e69828491b0072c9e0d.PNG)

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**Author:** ![Pasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@Pasa](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Pasa)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 9:15am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/42 "2016-07-07T09:15:44Z")

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Back to the original question, we were told more frequent releases, and it’s not apparent, at least on PC. When to expect 2.1 parts a and b?

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**Author:** ![CSZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/csz/32/4784_2.png) [@CSZ](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/CSZ)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 9:18am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/43 "2016-07-07T09:18:14Z")

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So… many… potential… souls…! Must… have…

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**Author:** ![GemsCollector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b4bc9f/32.png) [@GemsCollector](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/GemsCollector)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 11:09am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/44 "2016-07-07T11:09:29Z")

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> [@CSZ](#):
>
> So… many… potential… souls…! Must… have…

So many potential **clicks** to get them 😆

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**Author:** ![CSZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/csz/32/4784_2.png) [@CSZ](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/CSZ)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 11:12am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/45 "2016-07-07T11:12:26Z")

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> [@GemsCollector](#):
>
> So many potential clicks to get them

I’ve played a couple of Clicker Games. That doesn’t scare me at all. 😉

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**Author:** ![yonizaf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/yonizaf/32/1435_2.png) [@yonizaf](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/yonizaf)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 11:30am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/46 "2016-07-07T11:30:15Z")

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> [@GemsCollector](#):
>
> So many potential clicks to get them

Anyone actually does all those clicks by hand? I thought the obvious thing to do would be using an auto-clicker. Saves both your mouse and your finger.

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**Author:** ![GemsCollector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b4bc9f/32.png) [@GemsCollector](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/GemsCollector)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/47 "2016-07-07T11:59:53Z")

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Well, it never was bothersome enough for me to try to find/write such an auto-clicker. And for a couple of months it’s not a problem at all as souls stopped being an issue and I don’t even think about disenchanting any more.

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**Author:** ![Tactica](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tactica/32/6914_2.png) [@Tactica](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tactica)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/48 "2016-07-07T19:39:35Z")

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First, thanks for continuing this thread. I find it fascinating, from a philosophical stand point, as you point out - you are a dev, and knowing your driving logic does help me appreciate your design decisions, now and in the future. So, I thank you for taking the time.

> [@Mr.Strange](#):
>
> Trying to “get a jump” on an anticipated new feature by keeping something that is low-value now in anticipation that it will be high-value after the new feature is released is bad.[/quote]
> 
> - Do you put left-overs in the fridge for the off chance that you might eat them in the future?
> - Ever bought something at the grocery store, think you might want to eat it in the future, but not knowing when?
> - Do you have a savings account?
> - How about a retirement account?
> - Do you put money aside for any kind of unknown medical expenses in the future?
> - Do you pay for home, car, or life insurance - just in case you might need it?
> - When you create something at home, do you ever save the excess materials or ingredients?
> - Do you only purchase one bar of soap or one use of shampoo at a time?
> - Do you ever save up in advance of a purchase, so you don’t have to take out a line of credit?
> - Do you ever pay off a loan and use an item’s saved equity to buy something new?
> 
> To me, Glory (just as souls, coins, gems, trait stones) is an in game resource. Wisdom of life teaches us to save up resources for when we might need them. Your game is modeled on that philosophy as a core mechanic. It is not only advantageous, but wise to be collected and saved in anticipation of a future need / purchase / use… whatever it will be… the unknown. Same could be said for chest keys.
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > But remember, I’m a dev not a player. When I say it’s bad, I don’t mean “players shouldn’t do this” but rather “we should not release features in a way that encourages player to do this.”
> 
> Sure, I appreciate your role and perspective… just not your reasoning and motive. Look, in this game, if I could play for an hour and have the latest card as a new mythic, fully traited, just based on the card and resources hitting the virtual shelf - I could see your reasoning. However, that’s not the case in Gems of War. What we have here is a game that has a very LONG arc of time to put in and collect resources before you hope to purchase / earn from rng and then level with souls and fully trait an item. You guys put out new content weekly, and we love that! However, by means of how often content comes out, and how much resource is required - we MUST play in advance and horde IF we hope to have fully leveled - anything and just keeping up.
> 
> Now, you could lower the resource requirements, which would lower how much of any of the card copies or resources we needed… but you don’t. In fact, it seems you are coming out with more and more pieces for us to collect before we can fully level up many new cards. A common to get to mythic, fully souled and fully traited doesn’t happen in an hour of play… for example.
> 
> As you guys move to more and more resources required to fully mythic / trait / level a card, you are developing to the point where you are encouraging folks to horde more and more resources to keep up. I put in the time I do, because I want a chance at getting the new cards, the new mythics, the arcane traitstones that are so rare and hard to come by… that way, when there is a glimmer of hope for new card, mythic or arcane, I have a reasonable chance to roll for it that week… even if I am overloaded in home life, or work, or whatever at the time… at least I was able to hedge my bet prior, and have a shot at getting the new goods… cause lets face it, in a game like this, if you don’t have the tool when released, you might fall behind and start having to make harder decisions about what to level up and what to leave on the bench. If I can avoid that, I will… because, it’s how I want to play. I want to have all my options, all the cards and everything traited… so I can experiement and play any variety of game types, pvp teams now or in the future. In short, if I can, I’d rather have the tool as soon as I can if possible, vs wish I had it, and not have any good chance of getting it when I ‘need’ it.
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Building up resources for a known or anticipated rewards is good - that’s motivation and increases retention. Deliberately doing something counter-productive is what we want to avoid rewarding.
> 
> Seems like semantics on one hand, but I’m trying to follow the logic. You say, if the player “knows” of something releasing and builds up in anticipation, that’s good… but if they don’t know what’s coming, and still builds up the same resource in anticipation for the unknown… then, that’s bad?
> 
> That seems like an argument for the dev’s to publish the full release plans as far out as possible… so, we the players, know what’s coming. Then we can work toward and build proper resources so we can properly plan what resources we horde and which we don’t for the year, is that essentially what you are saying - dev’s should communicate better and further in advance so players know what to work toward, and are not blindly accumulating?
> 
> [quote]“Hoarding” isn’t a good or bad player behavior - players do what they do. But it’s not something we should encourage with the features we develop. And understanding our mindset should, (I hope) help convince players that hoarding isn’t something they need to be doing in order to stay competitive in the game.

Hmm… you seem to be arguing an ideal vision vs. practical application as delivered. That’s not all a bad thing, but your vision doesn’t seem to be congruent with the system and economy and requirements as currently designed.

If you lowered requirements and lowered time to achieve full trait, level and mythic class from what it is, to say an hour of real player time, Okay - then I agree. You could make resources for that new released item immediately available and folks wouldn’t need to horde. However, I don’t think that’s what you are talking about. It sounds like in the utopia of vision, you would release something and only then, would folks start working toward collecting it, ascending, leveling and traiting it as those items were found… the problem is, the time to find and perform those tasks is horrendous at the drop of a new release. The entire system of this game is built on accumulating resources and applying them.

To change that mentality, in a practical fashion, I’m unsure how you could achieve your ideal withoutoverhauling the whole game and it’s economy… but perhaps that is what you are really saying?

v/r,

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**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/49 "2016-07-07T19:51:06Z")

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I think the bit still stuck in your teeth is our different application of the word “Hoard.” You seem to define it thus:

“Accumulating resources”

Which is NOT at all what I mean. “Hoarding” to me is specifically about accumulating resources you don’t need, and have no reason to believe you will ever need. Accumulating junk. Putting money in the bank isn’t what I mean by hoarding, nor is creating excess wealth. I think of hoarding specifically as stuffing your couch full of bottle caps and gum wrappers, because you can’t stand to part with them, and have a (false) idea that they might become desirable at some point.

That’s not behavior we want in our players, or in anyone. So we as developers have a vested interest in making certain that this sort of behavior is never advantageous.

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**Author:** ![en9nhcet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/en9nhcet/32/1673_2.png) [@en9nhcet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/en9nhcet)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/50 "2016-07-07T20:00:01Z")

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i have a few souls laying around,though ive had more in the past! 😃

is this under your definition of hoarding?since new cards that come out will still need souls? xD

![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/gemsofwar/original/2X/6/6133dfadced3f7a7dcdaaf60489765839b6669d1.PNG)

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**Author:** ![Tactica](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tactica/32/6914_2.png) [@Tactica](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tactica)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/51 "2016-07-07T20:01:16Z")

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Okay, I understand completely.

Now, let’s apply your last reply to Gems of war. If accumulating resources (to whatever quantity) is not hording, it’s just “accumulating wealth”, then what is, to you, hoarding in Gems of War?

After all, we know chest keys, gold, glory, souls, gems, trait stones… even spare copies of cards - are ALL worth saving up until needed in the future. So by your definition (if I follow), no amount of any of these is hording, it’s accumulating wealth.

The only thing I could possibly come up with at the moment that would meet your definition of “hoarding” (as I understand it), would be perhaps accumulating more than 4 of one particular Mythic type… say 5+ War cards?

However, if that’s what you are talking about, could you blame anyone with the means for doing so? History has proven that destroying excess cards, even Legendaries, was a mistake… as now, we can upgrade to Mythics.

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**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/52 "2016-07-07T20:03:48Z")

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Dear lord, extensive and impressive.

I have zero idea how Mr.Strange’s reply relates to the argument or the game in general. Whatever the bottle caps and gum wrappers are referring to they should be removed from the game.

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**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/53 "2016-07-07T20:09:12Z")

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Nice, have you got all characters fully levelled?

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**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/54 "2016-07-07T20:15:12Z")

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> [@Tactica](#):
>
> anticipation that it will be high-value after the new feature is released is bad.

isn’t that basically what gambling on stocks is? You buy low and hope the stock price goes up so can turn a profit. [quote=“Tactica, post:48, topic:9177”]  
Sure, I appreciate your role and perspective… just not your reasoning and motive.  
[/quote]

I think what he is saying is that the economy should not stagnate because of feature releases. What if the cards coming in weekly is to prevent stagnation of resources. Would people need so much glory if they did not aim for the weekly troop?[quote=“Tactica, post:48, topic:9177”]  
You say, if the player “knows” of something releasing and builds up in anticipation, that’s good… but if they don’t know what’s coming, and still builds up the same resource in anticipation for the unknown… then, that’s bad?  
[/quote]

Sounds right. What is the difference between saving for an emergency and being a miser.

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**Author:** ![en9nhcet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/en9nhcet/32/1673_2.png) [@en9nhcet](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/en9nhcet)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/55 "2016-07-07T20:19:11Z")

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indeed! 😊

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**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/robert/32/12802_2.png) [@Robert](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Robert)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/56 "2016-07-07T20:24:06Z")

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And I bet you still use Valkyrie 😁

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**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/57 "2016-07-07T20:33:42Z")

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> [@Tactica](#):
>
> Okay, I understand completely.
> 
> Now, let’s apply your last reply to Gems of war. If accumulating resources (to whatever quantity) is not hording, it’s just “accumulating wealth”, then what is, to you, hoarding in Gems of War?

Well the specific discussion was exactly about keeping more than 4 copies of a card that is at mythic. Prior to the ascension mechanic, there was no reason at all to keep more than 4 copies. But then the ascension mechanic changed the rules - and folks who had been accumulating cards that were, as far as anyone knew, “junk” were suddenly rewarded greatly for their habits.

So the introduction of that system added a bit of a “I should hold extra copies even when they promise I won’t need them” attitude. And I wanted to reassure folks that we wouldn’t repeat the mistakes of the past, and that they should believe us when we tell them they can disenchant safely. I’d actually be in favor of an “automatic disenchant” function, that simply gives you the souls when you open chests and get cards you have 4 of at mythic.

The other potential example would be if someone did something extreme to earn a specific resource - souls, for example, and then continued to hurt themselves once they had no further need of an excess. For example, Arcane Mountain (yellow/brown) stones are needed for both Maw and Gorgotha, which are both great troops to trait up. If someone spent a bunch of money/maps/games trying to get a ton of Arcane Mountains, I totally understand. But if they then continued to accumulate those specific stones - to the detriment of others - reasoning that any future Brown/Yellow troops would be overpowered… well that starts to creep into “unhealthy” territory.

A fabricated example, obviously. But I think it makes the esoteric point.

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**Author:** ![killerman3333](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/killerman3333/32/4068_2.png) [@killerman3333](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/killerman3333)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/58 "2016-07-07T20:47:45Z")

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> [@Mr.Strange](#):
>
> I’d actually be in favor of an “automatic disenchant” function, that simply gives you the souls when you open chests and get cards you have 4 of at mythic.

Overwatch has this feature, it is not bad. To clarify overwatch turns the extras into in-game currency that you can use to get other stuff in game such as skins, loot boxes and any other stuff that has no impact on the game. #notsponsered

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**Author:** ![Tactica](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/tactica/32/6914_2.png) [@Tactica](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Tactica)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/59 "2016-07-07T20:56:12Z")

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Sure, I follow completely. Prior to the Ascension mechanic, I too fell victim to dissolving the extras (on console). Many moons ago now, there was even an auto-disenchant setting I could select by card at the time when I first started. Heh, boy did I regret setting that.

Despite ‘anyone’ saying don’t worry, we will not make an ascension mechanic in the future is perhaps helpful… but can anyone really predict the future or assure against the unknowns? You are a dev and are privvy to things in the works, I’m sure.

However, what if there are changes or plans you are not familiar with? What if the cards become a resource of any variety in the future? What if trading is enabled - whether to players or in game vendor or kingdom… for some yet to be determined reason? What if disenchant values change over time… or additional rewards are added when an item is disenchanged (souls today, souls and a trait stone in the future), etc?

It seems to me, as long as the cards can have any kind of value to the player in exchange for - well, anything, you have created an in game currency. Devs can make a change for better or worse in the future to that economy and value of card. Therefore, as currency, players remain incentivized to accumulate them, and only bust them when forced from need.

When you say someone does something ‘extreme’ with resource accumulation (I paraphrase), I guess you could limit by resource accumulation caps… however, the moment you came out with another card or mechanic that required more cumulative resources than what was prior in the game, will you then adjust the cap? Even if you did instill caps, folks would just build up to the cap, spend only what they needed and then build up to the cap again in anticipation of whatever was coming next. It’s the nature of growth, accumulation and progression based systems.

I wonder, let’s say you had 100 billion US dollars. Would you at that point say, meh, I’m done. I don’t need anymore, and then just start depleting it… or, would you say - as long as I can earn, I want to earn… just in case?

Afterall, what you have here is a game with endless investment potential from resources… you are only limited by your imagination of things for players to spend currency on. Games of past have shown us that folks will even spend real money on shiny horse armor… LOL… what’s to say the next thing to spend resources on in Gems of War isn’t new art or armor… or skins for the cards we already use? Thus… unless we can predict the future, why not accumulate as much and as often as we can - even in game?

cheers,

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mr.Strange](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.gemsofwar.com/mr.strange/32/2762_2.png) [@Mr.Strange](https://community.gemsofwar.com/u/Mr.Strange)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://community.gemsofwar.com/t/2-1-in-progress-can-we-have-infos/9177/60 "2016-07-07T21:48:58Z")

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[quote=“Tactica, post:59, topic:9177, full:true”]Thus… unless we can predict the future, why not accumulate as much and as often as we can - even in game?  
[/quote]

We want folks to have healthy lives, not spend 100% of their time playing GoW. That’s not good for anyone.

When I was in college, there was a thought experiment that made the rounds among my friends. It went like this:

“A stranger walks up to you holding a donkey on a rope. The stranger offers to give you the donkey. Do you take it?”

A lot of people immediately said yes, by the simple logic that having a donkey is better than not having one. Regardless of how much or little the donkey is worth, it’s more than NOT having the donkey, right?

But that’s a bit of a fallacy - because caring for a donkey is difficult, and college students have no place to keep it. And what if you have a class that day - do you just let the donkey run free during the class? It’s not practical to take on the responsibility of a donkey, since it can’t easily be converted into cash. (If you live near a donkey auction house that might be different, but we were college students in the North East.)

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