Strange +1 defense wins

The only way they could possibly be justified in banning anyone is if they explicitly state that doing xyz is against the game rules. They surely can’t ban people if what is happening is because of bad coding. However, I do put a strong emphasis on if. Because, I’m not entirely convinced the exploit shown in that deleted video can be completely explained by what Tacet said in that thread.

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I could see if they can’t fix it, going the route of banning afterwards if caught doing it. As @Ashasekayi I doubt that bans are going to happen since it was never stated anywhere or known about. I also doubt they would go on the witch-hunt it would take to find all the people that have already been abusing it.

Now is the time to try an properly fix the pvp issue as a whole so we hopefully don’t have to worry about anyone doing it again.

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This would be very easily tracked via the database if they contain records of timestamps.

How many battles can happen in such a short time? RED FLAG!

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Yeah but that still doesn’t ultimately get everyone. As said above, some could’ve used the exploit but kept their numbers low or knew how to fly under the radar.

So yeah they can get some, but they aren’t going to get everyone. Which is why I don’t think they’d go that route.

Apparently this was an exploit that you can quit or “turn off” so to speak whenever you wanted to.

Rigging a system to function in any other way than how it was designed is, usually, aggainst the law in real life for softwares and machinery/hardware to a certain extent. In this last case it just basically invalidates any support you could get if the whole thing blows up and any legal compensation the manufacturer would be obliged to you if the thing blows up on your face and you lose sight of one or both eyes for example…

But well, the legal approach is always subjective and if by chance the devs must opt out for stern lectures on all involved i will, still, trust that this is the best they can do for now, but i’ll seek forward that they must make it CLEAR that this behavior will not be tolerated anymore.

It’s sort of noble, or naive, that you seem to believe that players couldn’t be doing it on purppose. Once something is replicable and people were activelly been doing it, it’s irrefutable that someone dicovered a design flaw and exploited it to get benefits.

Let me show you both an example:

  • We know that the number of ways to get gems are very specific in this game.
  • If i find a certain combination of actions that somewhow rewards me with one gem everytime then i’m exploiting a flaw unintended to exist.
  • I’m doing something that the game is not supposed to do and it also gives me some benefit and advantage.

This is enough legal ground for any game company in general to ban someone. Specially if it’s a game where others are involved in some sort of competition that might be unbalanced by these actions. Cheating on solo-games like Doom not only were possible but also promoted with special passwords and codes, but why those doesn’t exist in multiplayer plataforms?

Because if someone is using and others aren’t these others are clearly on disadvantage, no matter how small it may seem even in GoW’s case as some people have defended. I have just a year in this game, but if i start cheating until i have as much, or more, than people that been playing for two years i’m cheating my way over them and cheaping the whole experience.

The others might never know that i cheated, but something illegal is still illegal even if no one knows about it.

Yeah of course we know that they COULD be banned, but usually Devs only take that route in extreme cases. Their code is what allowed the exploit to happen, and i’m not just talking about GoW.

You wanna talk about bloated resources, you should see some of the console bugs from the past. 1,500 gems sent to your mail because of a bug? No resources removed or bans needed because the bug came from a Dev.

This is just a way to game a loophole they created. So i’d be very surprised.

Like @Ashasekayi said if their code isn’t what is doing it, then yeah I could see them dishing out the punishment.

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Not sure what you are going on about with this comment. My statement was neither noble or naive. My statement clearly states that I “don’t” believe what was shown in that video was purely someone using a loophole in the code as Tacet implied. It looks far more like it is by design.

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I’d suggest these two! They small smite the wicked :smirk:

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I’m with you though even if no punishment happens, I feel they’ve been too lenient on exploits in the past.

I’m also a bit torn on it though because in the end when exploits surface it helps the Devs fix their coding. I get though that even though these people aren’t technically “hurting anyone,” they’re still a slap in the face of the people who earn rewards a legit way. Also there’s the whole thing with how pvp is setup to begin with. If we use a 1 troop defense technically we’re gaming the system, and that shouldn’t happen. If I want to field a weak defense that should be acceptable, but we shouldn’t be gaming the system from it. So who is to say what’s right other than the Devs. Communication going forward I think has to happen on the subject.

In the end is it our fault? Their fault? Who knows. That’s the blurred-line which is why sometimes bans don’t happen.

Of course there’s a big difference in unintended and intended exploits, but still.

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There is always a much faster way to ensure a fix gets made.

Overwhelm the servers with this hack for every account, and force it to be fixed quickly.

I would never advocate for this, however when the dev’s lifeline becomes at stake, you better believe this will move up the priority list of being fixed. This would be a #1 to fix if this was my game. Any hacks giving away free resources should always be #1.

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It doesn’t seems plausible to happen or expected. By my turn i can’t believe that the developers would make such design capable of rewarding 5K of glory in a whole week, not to mention three to four days as presented by @kynetarse, UNLESS we would have a really huuuuuuuge playerbase constantly attacking each other then these numbers would be much more common.

The fact that just a few people got that number of defensive battles, not matter if they won or not, indicates clear intent and action to rig the system in their favor at the expense of everyone else making normal progress and getting normal amounts of rewards in a certain time frame clearly designed as it is.

Noble for letting people have much more benefit of the doubt than it’s healthy. And i’m being true on this, i judge it as a noble feature to believe in people, but some caution is good to balance it out.

Naive mostly for the same reason above but mainly (i say both features are two sides of the same coin) for not assuming that people who want easy/fast results are among the most creative creatures you’ll ever find. It’s also very possible that Tacet tried to spare further details of this exploit to prevent it to spread, as a form of caution regarding the developers and the game, or that even he doesn’t know, or imagined, how it can be achieved properly. I have a lot of theories, but sharing those is not safe.

@Ivar

You don’t understand my comment apparently. I did not say that the devs designed what happened in that video. I’m saying the exact opposite. I don’t personally believe that video was purely the result of a bad coding loophole. Just an opinion, of course.

Since I don’t (and no one in this thread for that matter except the person that made that video) knows if he used a loophole or a flat out cheat, I’m personally not going to speculate about it in detail any further.

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I love speculation so allow me to dip my toes in. I highly highly highly doubt it was a straight out cheat because it more than likely would’ve popped up on the Devs radar long before now. (like the bots) So I think it’s definitely them gaming the pvp system loophole.

As Tacet said, having more people available to see you and attack you over and over would lead to those numbers. Some how some way.

But this has to be a classic case of someone finding out how to do it, then it spreading by word of mouth. There’s no way this many players discovered it by “accident.”

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I tried to cover this before with…

I honestly could see defensive losses counting just as much as a victory, but people advocated against it in the earlier days of the new PVP and the devs changed the amount of points we lose. Could be reverted and paired with my suggested limitation of five/ten defensive battles on each day, but people would still probably be against it as they don’t want to feel forced to play five or ten battles just to compensate the losses… So as much as it goes i keep scratching my head everytime i think how weird it is that PVP on this game is still called a competition…

@Ashasekayi, then i’m truly sorry for not understanding it before and for any trouble it may caused you. Thank you for a better explanation.

The only reason people would care about losing points is if they were trying to go for #1 in pvp. If I could lose points but still see “better” opponents then absolutely I would.

Yet again, I’m not accusing anyone of a full out cheat. However, I’m going to say this line of reason isn’t true in all cases. As someone that has worked in coding, I can tell you that catching bots is an ongoing arms race. Someone could make a different kind of of coded exploit today that the devs may not catch for a long time. It is and will always be an issue.

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Oh I wasn’t saying you were accusing anyone of cheating at all, but there’s only 2 cases it can be. Outside influence or inside. So if you eliminate an outside influence it has to be inside.

What you said is completely true, but eventually they will and do catch it. If this exploit has been out for 5 months like some are saying, I just find that to be too hard to believe. Because they have been doing a great job of that so far.

I feel like something would have already sent a “red flag” to them in the system if that was the case. I believe they haven’t caught this thus far, because it looks exactly like normal pvp unless you really dig deep or were alerted to it.

So therefore my speculation is it’s due to gaming the system. I may not be correct, but who cares i’m speculating. And I love it.

The problem with this conversation is that some people are talking about the video while others are talking about the known loophole Tacet referred to. Then, Kyn brought up a completely different pattern that doesn’t resemble the known loophole at all.

So, yes, it is quite possible that one of those scenarios involves a coded exploit that the devs have not detected because they can’t at the moment. Good coded exploits are crafted to look like regular play. That’s why they work for so long.

Either way, I hope all this drama and attention will help them in their investigation of what is really going on.

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BTW are these types of conversations even allowed on these forums? :smile:

It’s starting to feel very “secret society.”

I guess we will find out if it gets closed or deleted. :stuck_out_tongue:

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