Possible Queen Mab Nerf

@Spineless You’ve correctly identified a massive issue on console (although you’d have to have you TV off to miss it :wink:). But incorrectly interpreted the cause, its Justice.

Every day that goes by makes me wish the PC/Mobile players could have shared in the console fun too since at least February (or perhaps earlier), But unfortunately they did not get the full AI treatment. So they have nothing to complain about other than points in GW (its a problem, but a VERY minor one).

The OP just wants relief, hence the incorrect nerf request. No need to belittle the request from players that haven’t suffered most of this year.

Here’s a truncated clip of the AI’s move using Justice, 1T battle.

2 Likes

@Saltypatra posted something that may be relevant to the discussion yesterday, but it was buried in another thread so it’s easy to miss it.

Looks like there is relief in sight for Console players, though I don’t know the timeframe of the change.

5 Likes

I believe I correctly Identified the issue and then Suggested a change that would cripple justice/mab in defense, but still allow people to use it in attack :slight_smile: . Unless there is a way to prevent AI from casting Mab.

Sounds like a solution has already come out on PC and will eventually also come out on Console though so I guess the suggestion was given too late.

1 Like

PC hasn’t gotten the “full AI”, but console hasn’t yet experienced the gem convert / combo breaker changes. They’re pretty significant, and make VJM far less potent a defense on PC. It will be interesting to see how the combination of both the better AI with the convert changes work together. But my guess is that it will significantly hamper the effectiveness, and on console VJM will only be one of a handful of meta teams (rather than “the” team).

As for the OP, the problem you’re describing is legit, but nerf’ing Mab isn’t the solution. Hopefully the changes coming “soon” will actually fix it (fingers crossed).

5 Likes

Aaaaaah yes! Someone gets it!

Because of the gem convert/combo breakers, “The Justice League” will be a lot less viable as a defense team.

2 Likes

Lol, I won’t be holding my breath.
So to fix the justice-console problem the devs are going to give us screwed up gem spawning like pc and a dumbed down ai. Wow what a backwards step.
How many other troops are getting destroyed in the process??

Yeah you get it alright. :roll_eyes:

2 Likes

Lost a war yesterday to a low vjm where mab wasn’t even traited. Just like pringles.

“Once they pop, the fun never stops!”

2 Likes

but you will be keeping the skydrops ! :laughing:
but at least i think console players will be able to rest from the meta, some change is better then no change in this case?

on a side note… im enjoying loopers on MOBILE where the loop breaker was not implemented… i hope it lasts forever :disappointed_relieved:

I do get the idea of the change, and that it will lessen the impact of teams like VJM. However, while it no longer seems “broken”, PC feels less “fun” now (at least to me).

From what I’ve seen, the console AI is not “dumbed down” but is actually more unpredictable and therefore competitive/challenging. Now whether players actually want the game to be challenging vs. easy/casual is a whole different discussion, since many other threads have shown lots of people on both sides.

Me too, I prefer to play on mobile right now, and mainly use PC for doing 4x explore. With that said, the combo breaker on PC no longer seems to be having a real effect. It is significantly less intrusive, and very close to “true random” (without the game influencing the cascade locations) now. Many requested that compared to the “interference” that was occurring, but in practice it doesn’t really feel as fun. In reality, I’m not sure players actually want the fair playing field like many claim, but we’ll see if people warm up to the PC algorithms.

1 Like

Personally I don’t think mab was/is the issue on that team. It’s justice. I don’t want a nerf of the guardians, but a rework would be nice. If you snipe justice then that team breaks down on a fundamental level.

As a younger player I wanted the nerf hammer out too, but as I have become more end game and have everything leveled and mostly traited it becomes easy to build teams to handle justice league and psion/famine. The only time those teams are ever an issue is in GW when you as the attacker are “dumbed down” by limitations while the defense is free to do whatever they like (that fix cannot come soon enough).

My point is this… in the beginning you are going to lose, stick with it, get stuff leveled and traited and I promise it gets better. There are defense teams much more frightening than those two, and luckily I don’t see them much…yet.

The order of importance in my “justice league”.

1 Like

My old school team way back when went

Knight coronet
Paladin
Templar
Valkyrie

And then came the justice league. Thanks to guild wars, I use way more teams, this team is just very effective for my play style.

No im not a bot.

1 Like

Only one bot allowed and it’s me

1 Like

Well all know there’s only 1 true bot here.

@discobot display help

Hi! To find out what I can do, say @discobot display help.

1 Like

But you confirmed yourself that Sirrian’s explanation of the spawner combo breaker was how it works was accurate and that it is currently working as intended, and that explanation clearly states only even takes effect after five casts of spawners within the same turn.

A comparable leveled justice team that lands five extra turns with spawners has probably already team wiped you, and if not, has over 150 life and attack on 3 of the troops with everyone on your team frozen. Even in the video posted by @strat featuring a lower level defense using this team, four justice casts and one kraken completely tore the player team apart to a degree that the match probably would have not been winnable, even if the sixth cast spawner cast did happen to miss. With two troops being completely immune to Queen Mab’s damage, and one being immune to freeze. And there were only five spawner casts shown in the clip above. By everything we have been told so far, the spawner “combo breaker” code wouldn’t have affected what was shown in this video in any way. I’m not quite sure how this will dislodge the console meta, as metas, especially defense metas, tend to stick around until it is been proven that they don’t really win anymore, or something better comes along, and the team is very capable of winning even on PC/Mobile.

The real issue is that guardians are not overwriting either color that they are spawning on Console, making them much more reliable than they are on PC/Mobile regardless of the starting board. I’d surmise another big reason we haven’t seen it as much on PC/Mobile is we were already stuck on a couple teams capable of ruining your day with one cascade. Also, the team is deadlier on console not only because of the number of board mod it does overall because it won’t overwrite, but the fact that it will not be distracted by single skulls if you dial it down on the AI sliders, allowing it to get started easier and reducing the likelihood that it will stop looping once started. Big emphasis on the number of gems Justice is spawning to the board without overwriting, since when it does overwrrite like on PC/Mobile, it will often self combo break long before the five spawner cast mark most of the time. Its this change that needs to happen to break up the effectiveness of this particular combination. Another emphasis on most of the time, because things like what are pictured in the video still can happen on PC with the Unity port, I’ve done them versus the AI, and I’ve had the AI do them versus me.

6 Likes

I can’t like this @Mithran post enough. :clap: You have nailed it 100% perfectly. This is something that frustrates so many players (I’d say all at the end game even if you have a counter team who wants to fight the same meta team day in and day out forever - no one I know).

The “patch / fix” can’t get here fast enough

Cheers
Calv1n

1 Like

I will only say this to the original poster.
If you have trouble with Mab, the solution is actually in your nerf proposal.
There are currently at least 2 troops that start empowered and can remove all blue on the first turn.
There are also many troops that convert blue to something else.
So yes, the justice league is beatable by just plain out removing a color, and it’s not that hard.

I have no real problem beating the team (I typically use Amira on Justice, then Mab) And I actually like the team as an attack team, though I rarely use Mab’s spell and just rely on her 4+ match trait. My suggestion was mostly a way to remove it from Everyones defense team while retaining its usefulness in attacking.

1 Like

Fair enough.

1 Like