Lets not use Whitehelm as a home kingdom

On PC/ mobile now, the traitstone drop depends on your opponent’s home kingdom, not your own as it used to be. So it’s hardly the invader’s fault.

Speak for yourself! :stuck_out_tongue:
I am not willing to make that sacrifice.

The developers needs to make a change with the way drops are. I think it should be random. Or as a fellow guild member pointed out, it could be based on your own home kingdom or it could be a 50/50 chance between your kingdom and your opponents.

I think it should be completely random so everyone can use whatever kingdom they want. Or increase another kingdom’s glory so then there’s at least more than one option.

I’m sick of seeing all the yellows… But not sick enough to miss out on all that glory which adds up to buy me at least one extra pack. I don’t know about others, but I don’t typically sit at on a huge glory mountain every week. I normally make just enough to get what I want without much surplus. :slight_smile:

But this is a nice idea. However it won’t be effective because so few of the playerbase actually reads the forums… And on top of that, I doubt the majority that are reading will want to miss out on the rewards.

Selfish? Definitely. But I don’t want to take a penalty for others, as rude as that sounds :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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My home kingdom is Adana, which is red/yellow. Is that a problem for anybody?

While I certainly agree with the premise, I wouldn’t get my hopes up. Folks typically don’t care about passively helping others when it costs them anything, no matter how small. Take PvP, for example: Everyone seems literally turned on at the idea of running whatever silly meta (mana drain) defense that can drag out your game and cost you time, rather than something that would have you either win fast or lose quickly. The difference between winning or losing a defensive PvP battle is often a measly single soul or unit of glory. This is asking more than that. So, yeah…it’s a great idea, but unlikely to be utilized by many, unfortunately.

Fwiw, I have never used Whitehelm as my home kingdom for these reasons. I’ve always picked something that supports invaders getting those darned elusive minor reds! :smile_cat:

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I totally understand that point of view. In a way that’s why I chose Wild Plains as my HK, it gives the second highest Glory reward (tied with Pans Vale) out of all the Kingdoms, plus it gives everyone else those precious minor red and green stones that are so coveted. Tiny price to pay in my opinion.

It’s gotten to the point where I’ll choose the lesser trophy match if it has anything else other then yellow.

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I’ve posted on the issue multiple times, but lets look at the numbers.

Having all 3* or above kingdoms with maxed red guild statue gets a tribute collect chance of 26%. The upper end on number of tribute collects per day is 16. A maxed yellow statue gives you a tribute modifier of 1.1, but I’m going to ignore that for now because some or all of what you gain could easily be lost due to rounding.

On average, “bonus” gains from setting your home kingdom would be:
Using Whitehelm would give you 20 * 0.26 * 16 * 7 = 582.4 glory per week
Using Wild Plains would give you 16 * 0.26 * 16 * 7 = 465.92 glory per week (and 2912 gold)
Using Pridelands would give you 8 * 0.26 * 16 * 7 = 232.96 glory per week (and 5824 gold and 698.88 souls)

These numbers are the upper end of what is possible, but the ratios hold as long as your kingdoms are relatively evenly leveled

The upper end of the average glory you’d lose per week switching from Whitehelm to Wild Plains is 119. Wild Plains 7* is also currently possible, while Whitehelm is not, meaning if you have the 7*, you’d be gaining 119 more per week.

We can apply these same numbers to approximate how much glory said person would get from tributes, total.

164 (total available) * 0.26 * 16 * 7 = 4775.68 total glory from tributes alone without considering a home kingdom or the 10% yellow statue bonus.
Choosing:
Whitehelm - 5358.08
Wild Plains - 5241.60 (5474.56 with 7 star) (+/- 2.2%)
Pridelands - 5008.64 (-6.4%)
Anything with no glory bonus - 4775.68 (-11%)

The ratios hold true for any distribution of kingdoms that are equally leveled, but lower levels may have more points in whitehelm in anything else, which makes it a bit more valuable.

Assuming a more middle range player with Whitehelm as the only 3* in your collection, full level 10 kingdoms otherwise, and 3% statue bonuses, but still an active collector:
144 * 0.13 * 16 * 7 = 2096.64 (others)
20 * 0.23 * 16 * 7 = 515.2 (whitehelm)

So, if you home kingdom is:
Whitehelm: 3,127.04
Wild Plains: 2844.80 (-9.1%)
Pridelands: 2728.32 (-12.9%)
Home kingdom with no glory bonus: 2611.84 (-16.5%)

Obviously, if you collect less or have less stars or levels total, you’ll have less total, but you’ll usually fall between either of the above as far as ratios go, it would be rare for whitehelm to be more than one “tribute tier” above every other kingdom. Overall, Wild Plains is not going to be that big of a hit if you have it leveled equally to Whitehelm, but choosing a no-glory kingdom could end up costing you a troop pack every week.

I have been and will continue to use Wild Plains as my home kingdom despite taking a small hit in my overall tribute glory, because its a very small sacrifice for me to make at this point - these numbers dont even consider glory from sources such as PvP or key openings. But I can see why people wouldn’t want to do so, so I don’t blame anyone that doesn’t want to.

Instead, I’m going to again bring up yet another time that revenges being based on home kingdom as in 1.9 be reinstated.

This was a brilliant system for a number of reasons:

  • You had influence over your traitstone drops from PvP by way of revenges. You had a reason to switch your home kingdom, and also a reason to not switch it.

  • This gave players a selfish, personal reason to switch your home kingdom other than what was the most absolutely profitable in terms of glory at the time. As a result, more home kingdoms would trend toward traitstones that were needed for popular or recently released troops at the time.

  • Because players did occasionally make the switch in order to influence their traitstone drops from revenges, other players invading them would get drops from these kingdoms.

  • When a new, popular legendary was released, for example, many home kingdoms would switch their home to the kingdom necessary to that stone. Not only were they getting revenge drops related to their target troop, but players invading them were also getting the drops for the popular troop. As of now, one might set their home kingdom to offset the number of reds needed, and as a result, everyone would invade more kingdoms where red was available. If red suddenly became less needed for everyone, the trend would shift. Automatically.

I really don’t see why they stopped this system. The way it is laid out now is kind of terrible, to be sure, because it just adds to artificial gluts and scarcities. Explore did a bit to alleviate the problem, since you can farm whatever color and type at a reasonable rate, but at the same time, it has also become almost necessity to even get a single off week arcane (or even just a few minors) in the process. I would highly prefer we didn’t go full random for PvP drops when a much better system already existed before, but even that is preferable to getting yellow stones and only yellow about 80% of the time.

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That was the point, slow down player’s progression. That’s been Development’s MO the last 4-6 weeks if you haven’t noticed.

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This is exactly the root of it all. Some people can’t see other’s wishes as a feasible alternative. Either people are self-LESS or they are self-ISH. There is simply no grey area, only black and white. You play to help yourself, or you play to help the community. Invariably, the arguments reflect this every single time.

Your argument is succinct and well informed. Thank you for crunching the numbers so everyone can see exactly how much (or how little) they are complaining about.

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I have, very much so. This one seemed less deliberate though, in that it is slowing us down by creating artificial bottlenecks. Adding treasure hunt as an excuse to slow people’s free gems from 7 cascades and this guild update to slow down our ascensions makes sense, taking out revenge home kingdoms to slow down our traitstones does not.

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For a long time I set my home kingdom to Zhul’Kari for ease of finding and clicking Treasure Hunt… I suspect Arena fans often did the same for Broken Spire…

Now the mini-games have their own little button, I am more mobile :smiley:

I agree to some level. You can see that some players already changed the HK based on my topic. For me, it is already win. It might not be a lot when compared to the total numbers but anything is better than stay passive.

I do not share your oppininon on that one. From my point of view, setting defense is one of the key strategic parts of the game. And I think that almost everyone is trying to set the best team they can to win the DEF. It is not our fault that AI is stupid and we need to find the meta team which at least works.
This game should not become soulless grinding when you just quickly win any match. I agree with you though that the same defense teams are boring.

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Everyone using HK in this topic have me triggered. Put some respek on my name. :rage:

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You are more like HKd :slight_smile:

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@Mithran you are forgetting about the ppl who target their kingdom power development towards glory (lime me) where i currently have 5whitehelm(becouse of some hunch i had before even the spoiler happened) and other glory kingdoms 3ed just recently (whietehlm 3*ed long time ago)

your calculation would only hold true for same star amounts but when someone is raising kingdom power its unlikely to choose a worse beneficial kingdom as priority just becouse its ‘not too big difference’.

and i do not know how you feel about glory but with my current development status (5x5*, 6x3*, 9x1gold, 4x1silver) i do feel like every glory counts and i could really use additional ‘statistical one arcane per 3 weeks’. i feel not obliged to toss my development aside for the greater good of population where like ~1/4 of players thinks ‘ai cheats’ and not many would care about my little (so little to them, so big to me) sacrifice. the whitehelm plague is developments fault - not the developing players burden.

i mean after i got most of kingdoms 5* and the few decisive kingdoms 7*ed i would probably not need glory this much neither the statistical additional 1/3 of an arcane but that is literally only targetting old players… or very rich ones…

now how much of hypotetical arcanes ppl would gain if i sacrificed my statistial 1/3 of an arcane per week?

for past month i usually pvped till around 5,4-6k pvp points which is something around 120-150 wins
my defense team is the same for even longer then that and its win ratio balances between 1:1 to 1:4 with usually average of 1:2 (close to 2:3)
right now i have 144wins 6,3k pvp points, defense 22:42 (becouse i got sick and have more time to play so its above what u used to do)

i never paid attention but i think the average defense looses per week would hold below 50 so lets assume a statistical 50 or even 60 looses of my sefense

if i take in the info about explore arcane drop rates given (i think by devs) 5 arcanes per 100 explores

  • i would be theoretically giving a statistical 3 arcanes to ppl who attack me - but assuming the explore rates are actually 3x higher then in pvp that would mean its a statistical 1 arcane per week that someone would be looting off me at cost of my statistical 1/3 of an arcane.

but that amount of pvp is something most of players wouldnt do, i think its only the top 2-3k players or something, near that statistics and above. for the people who pvp less their sacrifice towards community would be even less relevant.

with this concept - i can agree to some extent of altruistic idea with you for the ppl whos def win ratio has a lot of looses in where as they either have a weak team meant to loose or pvp even more then i do or both :stuck_out_tongue:

on the other side of the fence, who really suffers most about having too many arcane summers are the players who are farming highest team score (8k preferably) 3-trophy opponents for a long time. so then the best remedy i can think of is personally asking the ppl who actually have an 8k+ defense team to swap from whitehelm, in most cases those ppl will anyway not need the extra glory +1/3 of an arcane and they might agree with your idea of feeling sick about seeing the summer.

if those aspects were cleared to begin with i woul be totally fine, but being summoned to this thread personally i felt a bit pushed to explain myself as it seemed to me unfair to ask developing players to slow their development. i am sure if you calculated their glory loss per weeks and how it influences their development slow down for a longer period of time - disallowing them to reach those 3* 5* 7* milestones as soon they suppose to you would find it not so little.

You do know that Home Kingdom has no effect on your Revenge battles for traitstone color anymore? It only goes on opponent’s Home Kingdom now in PvP, regardless of “type of battle”.
So it’s not your loss of 1/3 of an arcane. The glory loss is still a factor though.

the 1/3 of an arane is the calculated ~100 glory i will loose for using a ‘wrong’ home kingdom

Ah, apologies then

I’m actually not. That is the second set of numbers in my calculations, a hypothetical where Whitehelm is the only three star or above kingdom with the rest at 1*, eg., an entire progression tier above all your other ones. You’ll note you lose a lot more, percentage wise, if you target Whitehelm and then choose to use something else as a home kingdom, but that much should be readily apparent.

What I didn’t show was if you had leveled, say, Wild Plains ahead of the others instead of Whitehelm and chose that as your primary home kingdom. Lets assume the same base values as the second set, above, we’d have:

128 * 0.13 * 16 * 7 = 1863.58 (all others 1*)
16 * 0.13 * 16 * 7 = 232.96 (Wild Plains 1*)
16 * 0.23 * 16 * 7 = 412.16 (Wild Plains 3*)
20 * 0.13 * 16 * 7 = 291.20 (Whitehelm 1*)
20 * 0.23 * 16 * 7 = 515.20 (Whitehelm 3*)

So, if they are your only respective 3*, the rest 1*, and you only chose one or the other and also made it your home kingdom:
Whitehelm: 3127.04
Wild Plains: 2979.10 (-4.8%)

If you are working on anything above 3* but haven’t yet finished your gold stars (especially those that have glory payouts), I would strongly recommend it, you’ll see better payouts for very little cost by comparison. I would also highly recommend spreading out your 3 stars before going for any 7* (especially on the ten troop plus kingdoms, where they are relatively easy and usually require just some souls and minor/major stones, which should not detract much if at any from your progress toward a 7* anyway, which you’d usually be bottlenecked on runics/arcanes) as this will help you gain more gems and gold keys, which will help more with your overall progression.

We are in complete agreement here. You have no obligation to change your home kingdom, but I thought it best everyone be aware of exactly what they are giving up by choosing a different path. It is more of a problem at the top, to be sure, but if the current system continues, more and more people will see the imbalance as time goes on. It is not on you to try to fix this, but those of us that can, well, I’ve shown the numbers.

I’m in the plus/minus 2.2% camp, and a frequent collector, so it is not a big deal for me. Arcane needs aren’t even what I focus glory packs on anymore but rather ascending the troops, as the 2.1 patch makes the ascension time table much longer. Once I have enough troops to ascend twice, I’m only buying arcanes, so I usually draw the line there, so I have “enough” to reach my ascension goal when considering spending some event keys here and there on new legendary weeks, but not so much that I’d try to go for a whole extra set of ascensions on lower rarity troops unless I really like the troop, and I’ve determined that what I’m giving up won’t really help me there, as my reserve increases every week anyway. In contrast with troops, you can always just go out and get Arcanes from Explore, and they’ll always be the one you want regardless of what week it happens to be.

(My recorded drop rate, by the way, is roughly 6% for explores over 102 drops, which would put non explores at around 2%, or 1/50, which is also the community accepted drop rate.)

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with that addition up till now every point of wiev about the subject is being presented i guess, thanks

ill get back at it maybe after im full of summer myself (still need 17 more arcanes for humility, not to mention priest totally neglected)